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Dec 9 07 12:21 PM
Dec 10 07 1:07 AM
ByronOrlok wrote: Hollywood Gothique wrote: The whole Mafia subplot in the book was...well, I don't know what to call it, but at least it provided a motivation for why the mayor was so desperate to keep the beaches open. In the movie, the mayor is just stupid. Hang on -- are we getting our JAWSes mixed-up again? I don't remember a Mafia sub-plot in Benchley's original novel, but I DO remember there was one in the JAWS 2 novelization. But maybe I'M getting my memories mixed-up -- hell, it was only thirty years ago.
Hollywood Gothique wrote: The whole Mafia subplot in the book was...well, I don't know what to call it, but at least it provided a motivation for why the mayor was so desperate to keep the beaches open. In the movie, the mayor is just stupid.
The whole Mafia subplot in the book was...well, I don't know what to call it, but at least it provided a motivation for why the mayor was so desperate to keep the beaches open. In the movie, the mayor is just stupid.
Hang on -- are we getting our JAWSes mixed-up again? I don't remember a Mafia sub-plot in Benchley's original novel, but I DO remember there was one in the JAWS 2 novelization. But maybe I'M getting my memories mixed-up -- hell, it was only thirty years ago.
Yes, you are getting mixed up. In JAWS the novel, the mayor is in hock to the mob; he borrowed money when his wife was sick or something like that. That's why is is so desperate to keep the beaches open - he needs the Amityville economy to boom so he can make money to pay off his debt. JAWS 2, the novel, in the tradition of sequels, includes a Mafia subplot too.
Cinefantastique Online: The Review of Horror, Fantasy, & Science Fiction Films
Dec 10 07 1:16 AM
Joe Karlosi wrote: Hollywood Gothique wrote: Dare I suggest that your memory is playing tricks regarding the amount of time spent ashore? And no, the review was in regards to the first JAWS. There are other things about the film that are wrong. In the book, Hooper advises the mayor that the shark is likely long gone after the intial attack, so it makes sense that the town would re-open the beaches. In the film, Hooper invents this theory of "territoriality" and says the shark is probably still out there, waiting to eat someone else - and the mayor opens the beaches anyway. The whole Mafia subplot in the book was...well, I don't know what to call it, but at least it provided a motivation for why the mayor was so desperate to keep the beaches open. In the movie, the mayor is just stupid. No, my mind isn't playing any tricks on me, having seen the film for a couple of dozen times (or so) by now, and knowing it inside and out. Even if there is lots of "ashore time," the point is none of it is ever boring, and the characterizations and incidents going on are always interesting. Everything is a means to an end. So it never even comes close to being "a bore ashore", whatver that's supposed to mean. The idea of the Mayor opening the beaches anyway in the movie is that he's being ignorant and only cares about The Almighty Dollar. He eventually gets a shock himself to make him come to his senses. Works for me.
Hollywood Gothique wrote: Dare I suggest that your memory is playing tricks regarding the amount of time spent ashore? And no, the review was in regards to the first JAWS. There are other things about the film that are wrong. In the book, Hooper advises the mayor that the shark is likely long gone after the intial attack, so it makes sense that the town would re-open the beaches. In the film, Hooper invents this theory of "territoriality" and says the shark is probably still out there, waiting to eat someone else - and the mayor opens the beaches anyway. The whole Mafia subplot in the book was...well, I don't know what to call it, but at least it provided a motivation for why the mayor was so desperate to keep the beaches open. In the movie, the mayor is just stupid.
Dare I suggest that your memory is playing tricks regarding the amount of time spent ashore? And no, the review was in regards to the first JAWS. There are other things about the film that are wrong. In the book, Hooper advises the mayor that the shark is likely long gone after the intial attack, so it makes sense that the town would re-open the beaches. In the film, Hooper invents this theory of "territoriality" and says the shark is probably still out there, waiting to eat someone else - and the mayor opens the beaches anyway. The whole Mafia subplot in the book was...well, I don't know what to call it, but at least it provided a motivation for why the mayor was so desperate to keep the beaches open. In the movie, the mayor is just stupid.
I love it when people change horses in the middle of a stream. We have gone from "...there's barely much time spent ashore" to "Even if there is lots of 'ashore time..." Yet you seem upset that I questioned your memory of the film. Yes, the mayor is ignorant. I believe my post said he just "stupid." so you're not really disagreeing with me; you're just rephrasing in a way that is supposed to make the lame-movie plot device sound defensible. Basically, the script has to keep the beaches open; otherwise, there is no movie, so we'll make the mayor keep them open even though it makes no sense.
Dec 10 07 6:32 PM
Hollywood Gothique wrote: I love it when people change horses in the middle of a stream. We have gone from "...there's barely much time spent ashore" to "Even if there is lots of 'ashore time..."
I love it when people change horses in the middle of a stream. We have gone from "...there's barely much time spent ashore" to "Even if there is lots of 'ashore time..."
Yes, the mayor is ignorant. I believe my post said he just "stupid." so you're not really disagreeing with me; you're just rephrasing in a way that is supposed to make the lame-movie plot device sound defensible. Basically, the script has to keep the beaches open; otherwise, there is no movie, so we'll make the mayor keep them open even though it makes no sense.
In the film, Hooper invents this theory of "territoriality" and says the shark is probably still out there, waiting to eat someone else - and the mayor opens the beaches anyway.
Dec 10 07 8:53 PM
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the threads…dum-dum… dum-dum…dum-dum dum-dum dum-dum dum-dum…
Okay, here's my 2 ½ cents:
I have to admit, I've never read the novel, but from all the things I've heard from friends over the years about the stuff that was in the book (organized crime, extramarital affairs, etc.), I can't think of a single plot thread that I'm sorry they left out of the movie. In fact, I think they did a great job of adapting the book, tossing out all the truly extraneous stuff so that nothing could slow down the basic story.
One if by land, two if by sea -
Er, okay, how are we dividing the sea time and the shore time? Do we count the early shark attacks, at least those seen from the beaches, as ½ land, ½ water? One thing I must admit - I know lots of times people are surprised when they re-watch the movie and realize that so much of the picture goes by before Brody & Hooper head out with Quint. (I could pop in the DVD to time it, but I'm guessing it's at least 45 minutes into the picture). "Oh, I love to go swimmin' with bow-legged women…"
Even with a lot of the early scenes being set on land, though, I don't see what the problem is. I can't fathom (heh, heh) that negative comment in the newspaper review. The land stuff's boring? Geez, what was he lookin' at? It's full of great scenes: "this was not a boating accident!" & nails on the chalkboard & "I'm the chief of police - I can do whatever I want." When I first saw this at the movies as a kid, the audience was totally into the picture - right from the very beginning and all through the shark attacks, false alarms, squabbling with the short-sighted mayor and his bureaucats, etc.
Which brings us to Mr. Mayor - Larry the Louse
The Mayor's in hock to the mob? Oy. Glad they cut that. Because if everyone knew this was reckless behavior of just one guy, how'd he get it past the rest of the town officials? The medical inspector? The local business people?
As for the film, I totally bought into the mayor's intransigence. It's also worth remembering that he wasn't acting alone - the early scenes quite clearly show that he's got the backing of the other town leaders and many local businessmen.
I think this beat is much more believable than the "mob angle." And it's also worth keeping in mind the time when the movie was made - only a couple of years after Watergate. Wrong-headed officials looking after their own interests at the expense of the general populace? Not a hard sell to a seventies audience.
Hooper and Brody's wife:
Another beat I'm real glad they ditched. What the hell would it have to do with shark hunting? This would push the picture closer into those character study stories in which the killer shark ends up being just a convenient plot device that's used to resolve a romantic triangle. It's something that would seriously slow down the picture (by contrast, Quint's classic reciting of the tale of USS Indianapolis both deepens his character and also builds the threat and menace of the shark).
Re Joe's question about Hooper & Mrs. Brody and the dinner scene, I never got a particularly romantic vibe between them. Rather, I get the sense that Mrs. Brody - who's been reminded by locals that she'll never be considered an islander and thus will always be something of an outsider there - is delighted to have a friendly and engaging visitor drop by, especially since Hooper's also not an islander but a fellow outsider; in a sense, it comes across more as an American abroad running into a fellow American traveler.
Re the mom of the dead kid, yeah, I believe she's a non-actress, but that's okay, too. I think she works. It's okay for me that she doesn't cry (it evidently worked for them, too; after all, they could have added fake glycerin tears); you can feel the emotion in her voice. By contrast, a professional actress might have been tempted to go too much over the top with such a short but highly emotional scene.
Re Hooper's more likeable character - I think this also works very well; the more we genuinely like our characters, the more we're concerned for their safety and feel their jeopardy. Also, you understand how Spielberg might have seen a lot of himself in Hooper's character - he's short, a bit nerdy, and with an intense hobby that demands expensive toys. It's no surprise that Richard Dreyfuss would serve as the director's surrogate in his next film, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS.
Dec 11 07 7:41 AM
grgstv338 wrote: Re Joe's question about Hooper & Mrs. Brody and the dinner scene, I never got a particularly romantic vibe between them. Rather, I get the sense that Mrs. Brody - who's been reminded by locals that she'll never be considered an islander and thus will always be something of an outsider there - is delighted to have a friendly and engaging visitor drop by, especially since Hooper's also not an islander but a fellow outsider; in a sense, it comes across more as an American abroad running into a fellow American traveler.
Dec 11 07 12:13 PM
Dec 11 07 12:24 PM
Dec 11 07 12:29 PM
Dec 11 07 12:32 PM
I'd always assumed the Kintners were tourists, not islanders, and her apperance in JAWS: THE REVENGE made little sense. Would she be in touch with and come back to Amity to support the widow of the man whom she blamed for her own son's death years ago? But it does appear her son's funeral is held on the island and that they are locals, so her being in the Brody house in the later film makes a little more sense. Of course, nothing else in JAWS: THE REVENGE makes any sense at all!
Dec 11 07 3:36 PM
Hey Doug! Thanks for the heads-up on your pal's site! There's a ton of stuff even us "hardcore" Jaws fans may have never encountered before. I was particularly taken by the stills from the estuary scene, as it gives an insight into how the original scene would have been storyboarded and shot (and the fact that it would have been considerably more intense based on Brodie's son "riding" along bitten boater) Good stuff! Thanks!! Bryan
Dec 11 07 4:07 PM
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Dec 11 07 8:18 PM
I've always felt JAWS worked well because you don't see much of the shark at first...
Dec 11 07 9:03 PM
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