Stop motion in the movies! in General Horror and Sci-Fi Forum

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Stop motion in the movies!

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Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#41	[-]
Feb 8 06 12:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Most if not all of DRAGONSLAYER wasn't stop-motion; it was 'go-motion', as far as I know. I think the only difference between go-motion and stop motion is the assistance of a computer to control certain parts of the model to create that realistic blur effect. The rest of the model still has to be animated normally. (But I also assume that the computer takes the place of actual surface gauges, since it would keep the animator's point of reference handy, and that would certainly make the animation much easier.)
HalLane	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#42	[-]
Feb 8 06 3:07 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's the way I understand it: the puppet is controlled by rods that are moved by motors and servos-- the movements are programmed into a computer (an early one I'm sure) and the model is moved incrementally while the shutter is open, kind of the inverse of stop-motion, and much less hands on, it seems to me. Similar to what Danforth was trying to do by double exposing frames in WHEN DINOSAURS RULED THE EARTH, only much more mechanical (and repeatable) it seems to me, more akin to programming animation for CGI today. And it looks really smooth, too.
BijouBob8mm	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#43	[-]
Feb 9 06 12:05 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Double check me on this, but on go-motion: Isn't it stop motion carried out by the computer, once the animated moves are programmed in? I thought the stop-motion moves were fed into the machine, which then makes the moves while the camera is exposing the frame, rather than the moves being made between exposures.
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#44	[-]
Feb 9 06 1:12 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Isn't it stop motion carried out by the computer, once the animated moves are programmed in? I thought the stop-motion moves were fed into the machine, which then makes the moves while the camera is exposing the frame, rather than the moves being made between exposures. According to the description in the stop-motion book, rods were connected to whatever part of the model where the blur was desired, and the computer then moved only those parts (legs in one scene, wings in another), otherwise you'd have to have rods all over the puppet to move everything, thus creating more problems than you're solving, I would think. My guess is, if CGI hadn't come in, they would have developed internal mechanisms that would move virtually the entire model via the computer.
BijouBob8mm	Re: Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#45	[-]
Feb 9 06 3:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	So, if I sneeze while hitting the shutter release on my animation camera, blurring the frame by bumping into the tripod, that doesn't count as go-motion? ;)
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#46	[-]
Feb 9 06 3:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh, I forgot to add on go-motion that the frame is shot at the precise moment the rod-controlled part of the puppet is in motion, which is what causes the blur. Now for the answer to my previous MOTHRA question... The two shots are the initial cracking of the egg and the initial cracking of the dam the larval Mothra bursts through. While both shots look like cel animation, it's very doubtful (anything's possible, I guess) because there is no optical used for either shot, which cel animation would require. So my theory is they constructed the egg and the dam to break in a precise manner, then painted over the model. Then using stop motion, they either etched the cracks, or drew dark lines where the fabricated breaks were. As soon as the stop-motion cracking ends, they just broke the models where they had been designed to break in live action shooting. Pretty ingenius! Harryhausen probably did the same thing at certain times. But the initial cracking of the Roc egg in THE 7TH VOYAGE OF SINBAD is not. You see drawn lines animate out, then the egg shell breaks from a chick's head, and if you look closely you can see part of the eggshell fall away with the painted lines still on it! The following shot I'm not sure how he did, but it looks like he just animated as he exacto-knifed the cracks. Then the next shot has the eggshell half fall away.
BijouBob8mm	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#47	[-]
Feb 9 06 5:17 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I believe Harryhausen mentions in an interview (or one of his books) that he pre-scored the cracks into Talos for the destruction of the bronze behemoth.
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#48	[-]
Feb 9 06 7:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* So, if I sneeze while hitting the shutter release on my animation camera, blurring the frame by bumping into the tripod, that doesn't count as go-motion? ;) No, but I think that's just about what Danforth did for WHEN DINOSAURS RULED THE EARTH. By the way, I hear now that Danforth is indeed compiling a book. I'll keep you posted... And here's a new one: there's a movie called MATCHLESS that almost no one has ever seen. It's been shown on TCM a few times, which is where I saw it. Anyway, it stars Patrick O'Neal as a guy who gets hold of a ring that can make him invisible. There are two stop-motion animation shots, one of which is sort of unique. Anyone know the scenes?
BijouBob8mm	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#49	[-]
Feb 9 06 8:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OMIGOSH, someone else (besides me) has actually seen MATCHLESS?!!! I tell people about this film, and they think I must have dreamed it, yet it was a late night staple while I was in high school in the 1970s. I would love to see this again. (Probably my memories of it would prove to be better than the film, but still....) Glad to hear Danforth is putting together a tome about his own career; thanks for sharing and, yes, please keep me/us posted!
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#50	[-]
Feb 9 06 8:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* (Probably my memories of it would prove to be better than the film, but still....) I would say, probably so. Still, it's entertaining, and I happen to believe that O'Neal was a very underused actor that should have gone much farther. Oh, it's also got Henry Silva and I can watch him in anything!
HalLane	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#51	[-]
Feb 10 06 11:57 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I remember O'Neal muttering to himself quite a bit, but not a whole lot else (I also seem to remember him trying to steal something). Did the ring stay visible when he used it? I'll say the animation had something to do with that.
ryanbrennan	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#52	[-]
Feb 11 06 3:33 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I taped MATCHLESS a couple of years ago. Until now I've never heard anyone talk about it. Next thing you know people will be discussing DEADLIER THAN THE MALE or WHERE THE SPIES ARE.
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#53	[-]
Feb 11 06 9:41 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Did the ring stay visible when he used it? I'll say the animation had something to do with that. No, the ring didn't stay visible. In fact, I don't recall any kind of Fulton-type matte effects at all, such as when he puts on a hat or smokes. It's a pretty lame affair, effects-wise. But in the two shots I mentioned, O'Neal takes a shower. When he comes out, a stop-motion towel wraps itself around his invisible waist. And, in the really interesting shot, as he walks across the room, we see wet footprints appear. These aren't just popped on. It looks like they took some sort of gelatin and applied it to the floor in increments so that it appears that he's walking heel to toe. (What's funny is they make no attempt whatsoever to show water droplets on his body...)
BijouBob8mm	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#54	[-]
Feb 14 06 10:15 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	In today's digital age, we would see the water droplets. Actually, this would be a perfect time to do H.G. Wells' THE INVISIBLE MAN. (I have to confess to being less than impressed with HOLLOW MAN.)
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#55	[-]
Feb 14 06 11:08 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* I have to confess to being less than impressed with HOLLOW MAN Well, I think the invisibility effects are the most convincing ever done. And most of the movie tends to get better with every viewing. But that last 30 minutes devolves into just another slasher film with the requisite non-endings, and that's a real shame. Meanwhile, here's another stop-motion question: where's the small bit of stop motion in DIARY OF A MADMAN with Vincent Price? Since this is an easy one, I'll also ask: why might it be considered somewhat unique?
BijouBob8mm	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#56	[-]
Feb 15 06 3:58 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I was targeting the story of HOLLOW MAN, not the excellent effects. DIARY OF A MADMAN...too many years since I've seen it for me to remember the stop-motion in that one.
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#57	[-]
Feb 18 06 1:42 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The stop motion in DIARY OF A MADMAN occurs when the Horla (or whatever) changes the clay sculpture Price has made of Nancy Kovack's head from nice-and-smiling to evil-and-frowning. It's not particularly well done, but what may make it unique is that it actually looks like they animated real clay, not plasticene. That would make it genuine clay-mation. Here's another odd one: there's a tiny bit of stop motion near the end of RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD that has nothing to do with zombies. In fact, we can't figure out why it was done in stop motion at all. Any guesses?
JimPV	Re: Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#58	[-]
Feb 19 06 12:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Here's another odd one: there's a tiny bit of stop motion near the end of RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD that has nothing to do with zombies. The remote missile launcher, right? More specifically, the shot of the projectile being loaded. "If I had a hidden microphone inside of my heart, I would turn the power on..."
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#59	[-]
Feb 19 06 1:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* The remote missile launcher, right? I'm floored! You're absolutely correct. (This is one I didn't think anyone would ever get...) More precisely, it's the bomb as it loads. And I don't have the foggiest notion why they'd do it that way. I doubt it was designed as a stop-motion effect, so it must have been that the model just looked too much like a miniature in live action and they somehow rigged it to be able to be moved in increments. I would think I just imagined it altogether, but I showed it to a real stop-motion expert and he concurred.
Arch Stanton	Re: Stop motion in the movies!	#60	[-]
Feb 20 06 1:23 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Stop the presses! As I was pondering the next stop-motion question for this thread, FXRH dropped by and mentioned something utterly amazing about Harryhausen's 20 MILLION MILES TO EARTH. Harryhausen told FXRH about this personally in one of their many cool conversations. This information is not in any of his books, so you'll be hearing it first here when I answer the question I'm about to pose. Trying to decide how to ask the question was tough, but here's the way I came up with: The information came from FXRH when we were discussing if Harryhausen had ever done any kind of stop-motion transformation (see the earlier posts on this) and he said that Harryhausen had actually changed the Ymir model for one brief shot in the film. So I'll tell you exactly where the change takes place, and you tell me what the change is.... It's in the famous shot where the Ymir is clutching the man in one hand and the lamp post in the other. How did Harryhausen change the model for just a few frames?

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Stop motion in the movies!