Avengers assemble! in Current Horror, Sci-Fi and Fantasy Films Forum

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Avengers assemble!

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luluthebeast

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May 4 12 4:02 PM

The Hulk was the best part of this and was the only character to actually get cheers from the audience (2 scenes), otherwise I was a bit underwhelmed by it all. I enjoyed the infighting, but was just waiting for the big, "dramatic" fight scenes to be over. There were two extra scenes, with the very last one relating to something Stark says.

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Joe Karlosi

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May 4 12 5:03 PM

Robert Troch wrote:
they finally got the Hulk right,

I saw it today and I would have to disagree with that (and this for the third time). Still they had him as a mostly-mute, brute, savage monster looking to destroy everyone in his path, and I just don't like that limited interpretation of ol' Greenskin. I was a loyal fan of collecting the INCREDIBLE HULK comics from the '60s up to about 1990 and the Hulk was an endearing lost soul who made friends, spoke dialogue, and who did not usually get violent until he was first persecuted or attacked. I know that at some point in the late '70s they had Hulk RROAARRRIINNG and GRRRRROWLING like some mindless mad beast for a time, but the character actually was capable of some real heart and depth when they rendered him more like the poor Frankenstein Monster who met the blind hermit.

And every time I saw Hulk amidst the other superheroes in the movie, his being a CGI cartoon called attention to itself and sometimes compromised got in my way.

As for the rest of the movie -- "pretty good", I'd say. Personally, I've overdosed on too much of this superhero business. But I was mainly curious to see how they would manage to include so many different superstars into the story and have it make sense... and for the most part I think they accomplished that. It's just that all this sort of thing does start to feel like "rinse and repeat" after so long.

I know that comedy was always a part of the Marvel characters to some degree, but I did feel that there was just a little too much here at times. I'd like to ask fans in the know --- I realize that Spidey was always famous for his wisecracks and one-liners, but was Tony Stark that way in the comics? Robert Downey Jr. (who I always felt made a respectable looking IRON MAN) is a real clown in these. Was this true to the Anthony Stark in the true Marvel Universe?

Movie felt a little too long again (par for the course I guess). But it wasn't bad.

"Guy named Squeamy got thrown from the fifth floor. He's deader'n a mackerel."

Joe Karlosi

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May 4 12 5:18 PM

tonyrivers wrote:

Second was the two appearances of the Hulk. First time Banner "Hulks-out" he attacks Black Widow and anyone in his way; yet the second time he seems to be in control and only attacks Loki and the enemy and seems to act as part of the Avengers team, even obeying Captain America's "Hulk Smash" order. And he catches Iron Man when he falls after flying the bomb into the portal to close it......more for the crowd in the theate to cheer rather than for any reasonable explanation. I don't recall the Hulk from the TV series or the other 2 Hulk films acting rational. When Banner becomes the Hulk, he's more or less out of control and will smash anything or person in his way (and hopes he didn't hurt anyone when he returns to normal).

Did you read the comics back in the day? As I wrote above, The Hulk typically was not this inarticulate roaring and scary-as-hell frothing werewolf/Godzilla thing always grunting and frothing at the mouth. That only occurred in the comics when Hulk got screwed or people attacked him first because they feared him. I though the scene of him running after the Black Widow was just so wrong and out of character of the "true" Hulk I loved to read about. As far as I'm concerned, the Lou Ferrigno TV version was always wrong (I was really let down when I saw it premiere as a kid), and so too were the other recent Hulk films.

I don't know what the filmmakers are so afraid of in allowing Hulk to have some sensitivities, good continuous dialogue, and bonding with certain other people here and there He was friends with young Jim Wilson in the comics... also Dr. Strange (who he affectionately called ""Magician")... he had a crush on Betty Ross.... he had a girlfriend named Jarella.... But no, they want to make the character like Carpenter's The Thing instead of the real Incredible Hulk.

But admittedly I do not know the original comic book story of Hulk joining the Avengers. Maybe he was just as untamed and deadly, hell bent on roaring at the top of his lungs and looking to attack or kill everyone for no reason.

"Guy named Squeamy got thrown from the fifth floor. He's deader'n a mackerel."

Last Edited By: Joe Karlosi May 4 12 5:22 PM. Edited 2 times.

Carl Eyesnheart

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May 4 12 5:31 PM

He wasn't a mute, or an out of control rampaging monster in the original story. He was one p.o.ed guy who was stubborn to a fault and wasn't about to take the time to listen to the Avengers. He could speak, but was beyond actual intelligent understanding.

My fanzine all about Rock N Roll: www.sonicruin.com

delgadosaur

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May 4 12 6:07 PM

To me, Nolan's batman is no different from Miller's in the 80's. I'm a big fan. I don't mind Burton's Batman, and I mean the first film, but the storytelling in Nolan's batfilms to me are really on a high level, and I must say, have lots of heart, at least in my opinion.

Another scene in the film that really impressed me is the conversation/tet-a-tet between Loki and the Widow. Her character really expanded in this story, and hope she gets her own picture. Plus she aint hard on the eyes in that suit.

professor liebstrum

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May 4 12 6:30 PM

Lee and Kirby never seemed to have a firm grip on the Hulk, at least , in the early stories.
It always seemed to me, to be latching onto the success of the Thing in FF.
The Hulk's dialogue seemed to richochet between Jimmy Cagney in the third person and a dim version of Bruce Banner
He'd settled down by Avengers 2 but it wasn't really constant.
The consistent good Hulk stories were a few years down the line.

Russ

professor liebstrum

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May 4 12 6:38 PM

Joe,

The Jim Wilson / Hulk stories were a high point I remember as well.

Russ

Last Edited By: professor liebstrum May 4 12 6:48 PM. Edited 1 times.

professor liebstrum

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May 4 12 6:50 PM

delgadosaur wrote:

To me, Nolan's batman is no different from Miller's in the 80's. I'm a big fan.
I don't mind Burton's Batman, and I mean the first film, but the storytelling in
Nolan's batfilms to me are really on a high level, and I must say, have lots of
heart, at least in my opinion.

Another scene in the film that
really impressed me is the conversation/tet-a-tet between Loki and the Widow.
Her character really expanded in this story, and hope she gets her own picture.
Plus she aint hard on the eyes in that suit.

Agreed, but there was a word in this scene that lifted me out of the film for a few seconds . Out of place and Stan would never haver wrtiten it.

Russ

Last Edited By: professor liebstrum May 4 12 7:11 PM. Edited 3 times.

taraco

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May 4 12 6:50 PM

Burgomaster

I had a decidedly mixed experience. I thought the opening 45 minutes or so were actually pretty tedious, mostly because of so-so pacing, mundane action scenes, a serviceable but ordinary Loki and an awful performance by Samuel L. Jackson, who couldn't decide if he was a detached mystic Jedi or a hardened Nick Fury. It felt like he was phoning it in.

But when the characters finally kicked in, wonderfully bickering as 'civilians,' each one underplaying who they were (even Downey), the movie soared into a super-hero realm that's never been achieved before on film. The last hour is superb, with fight-first, assemble-later showdowns straight from the 1960s comics.

Thor vs. Hulk is wonderful and every actor (except Jackson), is first-rate, redeeming the silliness with post-modern deadpans on our favorite heroes. Chris Evans' Captain America and Downey's Iron Man (much better than he was in IM2), carry the film, but Chris Hemsworth is terrific (I wish there was more Thor), Scarlett Johansson is a beautiful and believable Black Widow and Jeremy Renner is Jeremy Renner, commanding the screen whether hero or villain.

The surprise is Mark Ruffalo, who hides his green anguish beautifully and who, as the Hulk, has the best action 'jokes.' Just great.

I ended up really enjoying it. Even with the sluggish start and a storyline far less engaging than I expected from Joss Whedon, once Whedon had all the characters established and at his disposal, it seems he could have gone on having fun endlessly with the Marvels of yesteryear. What a House of Ideas the early Marvel Bullpen really was.

A question: Does anyone ever say 'Avengers assemble'? I don't think so. Also, for all the comic book credits at the end -- at least a dozen creators from the 60s, 70s and today are mentioned -- I'm not sure I saw Jack Kirby's name. I trust I'm wrong, but...?

Can't wait to see it again.

david

Last Edited By: taraco May 4 12 7:03 PM. Edited 1 times.

professor liebstrum

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May 4 12 7:08 PM

I didn't notice Avengers Assemble but the Big A on the side of the Stark Scraper did remind me that they always met in Tony Stark's town house/ mansion.
Very Good Film.

PS Jack was there, at least in the UK

Russ

Last Edited By: professor liebstrum May 4 12 7:12 PM. Edited 1 times.

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Jeff Mclachlan

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May 4 12 7:29 PM

Kirby got two credits---one for co-creating The Avengers, and one for co-creating Captain America. I think Don Heck should have also gotten some credit for co-creating Iron Man, Hawkeye, and The Black Widow.

taraco

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May 4 12 7:38 PM

Burgomaster

That's good to hear about Jack Kirby. Totally missed those. Good.

Carl Eyesnheart

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May 5 12 12:14 AM

Just got home. Absolutely LOVED the whole thing!

There was no "Avengers Assemble." I expect it will lead the charge in the second film.

I thought Loki was just as great here as in the THOR movie.

Ruffalo was outstanding as Banner. His hesitant demeanor really made the character come to life. I also never got the impression that Hulk was a brainless beast. When he was Hulk he didn't have too much need for conversation, as none of them did. I get the feeling that if there is a Hulk 2 film we will see more of a thinking Hulk. Especially since Banner lets us know that he does have control of Hulk at the end.

The credit sequence (not the very end one, but the middle one) caused me to squeal like a little girl and jump out of my seat. I was THRILLED to see that come on screen. It was exactly what I was hoping for all along.

My fanzine all about Rock N Roll: www.sonicruin.com

The Batman of Gotham

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May 5 12 1:07 AM

Carl Eyesnheart wrote:
Ruffalo was outstanding as Banner.

was anybody else distracted by Ruffalo's resemblance to Greg Mank?

- GJS

professor liebstrum

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May 5 12 4:31 AM

That's it !!

I knew he reminded me of someone

Russ

Dudley Manlove

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May 5 12 4:32 AM

Very good film. Funny, exciting and got the comic book tone down pat.

BUT!!! My highlight.......... the confrontation with Hulk and Loki in the Stark building! Simply amazing and had the packed audience exploding in laughter and applause.

Joe Karlosi

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May 5 12 5:28 AM

The Batman of Gotham wrote:

was anybody else distracted by Ruffalo's resemblance to Greg Mank?

Actually, Ruffalo reminded me of Chris Sarandon (of FRIGHT NIGHT)!

"Guy named Squeamy got thrown from the fifth floor. He's deader'n a mackerel."

Last Edited By: Joe Karlosi May 5 12 5:31 AM. Edited 2 times.

luluthebeast

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May 5 12 8:28 AM

Dudley Manlove wrote:
Very good film. Funny, exciting and got the comic book tone down pat.

BUT!!! My highlight.......... the confrontation with Hulk and Loki in the Stark building! Simply amazing and had the packed audience exploding in laughter and applause.

And the Hulk's parting comment brought the biggest cheers of the movie.

Lawrence Fechtenberger

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May 5 12 8:45 AM

This is not meant as a general comment on the film, but I have to state that the part that gave me the greatest pleasure was seeing Harry Dean Stanton, of all people, show up.

It was also nice to see Kenneth Tigar getting a good scene.

luluthebeast

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May 5 12 11:52 AM

Two people I've always enjoyed. I still get chills when I see Tigar's performance on MAGNUM as a psychotic killer.

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