GODZILLA vs. MONSTER ZERO in Japanese Giants Forum

0 Points

Forum Jump

GODZILLA vs. MONSTER ZERO

Author	Comment
Edkkakumon		#21	[-]
Jun 15 11 11:51 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Transporter?
	Remove this ad
starhawk60.movieserialmess...		#22	[-]
Jun 16 11 10:50 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Or a little trapdoor and low tech rope ladder.
bipolarber		#23	[-]
Jun 16 11 11:05 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just offscreen, on either side of Glenn and Fuji, there are elevators to the lower decks. They're right next to the bathrooms. "[The audiance] will populate the darkness with more horrors than all the horror writers in Hollywood could think of. If you make the screen dark enough, the mind's eye will read anything into it you want! We're great ones for the dark patches." -VAL LEWTON
gene phillips		#24	[-]
Jun 17 11 3:18 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As I watched of MZ recently, I found myself whether or not the Xilian leader's lines in Japanese (in the death scene) might've had different content than the English dubbing. Yeah, I know, it's never happened before, but... (!!) As you'll all recall the alien leader's last lines are something about escaping the Earthmen's bombardment by voyaging through time. He fails and the saucer blows up. But given the force with which the leader flips that switch at the end-- body language now suggesting to me that he had a little difficulty making himself do it-- I can't help if it wasn't more of a suicide action, a last gesture of defiance to the Earthmen. I can't say I have encyclopedic knowledge of Japan's complex ethic about suicide, but in a way last-ditch self-immolation would make more sense than a last-ditch "Hey guys, let's see if we can find a wormhole in the next six seconds!" NATURALISTIC! UNCANNY! MARVELOUS!
Edkkakumon		#25	[-]
Jun 17 11 11:36 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	From what I've read of Bushido, suicide was acceptable when a samurai failed in his/her duties. We also have the Romans, who would kill themselved rather than become prisoners of war. You could see the leader's actions as choosing to die by his own hands than be killed by what he views as a less advanced race.
SparkieGojira		#26	[-]
Jun 18 11 12:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Erik wrote: There are two music alterations to the US version from memory, both of which actually improve on the Japanese version. 1) Instead of the upbeat martial march, the US title sequence uses the eerie music heard when Godzilla is risen from the lake. I appear to be in a tiny, itty bitty, extremely small minority, but I categorize the above alteration as on par with GIGANTIS THE FIRE MONSTER or John Beck's cut of KING KONG VS GODZILLA as far as the American distributor managing to totally sabotage the original film makers' intent. -Clark
SparkieGojira		#27	[-]
Jun 18 11 12:40 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	gene phillips wrote: As I watched of MZ recently, I found myself whether or not the Xilian leader's lines in Japanese (in the death scene) might've had different content than the English dubbing. Yeah, I know, it's never happened before, but... (!!) As you'll all recall the alien leader's last lines are something about escaping the Earthmen's bombardment by voyaging through time. He fails and the saucer blows up. But given the force with which the leader flips that switch at the end-- body language now suggesting to me that he had a little difficulty making himself do it-- I can't help if it wasn't more of a suicide action, a last gesture of defiance to the Earthmen. I can't say I have encyclopedic knowledge of Japan's complex ethic about suicide, but in a way last-ditch self-immolation would make more sense than a last-ditch "Hey guys, let's see if we can find a wormhole in the next six seconds!" I believe you are correct, sir. Very astute observation. The Xians escaped into "an undiscovered country". -Clark
Uchujin65		#28	[-]
Jun 18 11 1:55 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've always thought that the Controller, more or less a hardcore narcissist who basically manipulates an entire planet ala Emperor Palpatine, was basically just raving in near madness because he couldn't process his power finally being overcome and it was suicidal. Maybe the Xilians have weird religious beliefs about life after death as well. You guys are right, it was very much akin to how many Japanese during World War II committed suicide via grenades and harakiri rather than surrender to the Americans. I've always wondered if the Xilians' very controlled society and their desire for conquest and all that were a reference to/somewhat inspired by the rigid social nature and colonial ambitions of Imperial Japan and Honda was kind of subconsciously exploring his own country and culture's dark side, a cause he in fact was forced to serve. jlcarrozza.com
SparkieGojira		#29	[-]
Jun 18 11 9:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wow. Good call, Uchujin65. I've long thought that WW2 haunts everything from GOJIRA to GUNDAM and MACROSS in ways the casual viewer might not even want to perceive. -Clark
Uchujin65		#30	[-]
Jun 18 11 5:23 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	SparkieGojira wrote: Wow. Good call, Uchujin65. I've long thought that WW2 haunts everything from GOJIRA to GUNDAM and MACROSS in ways the casual viewer might not even want to perceive. WWII impacted the Japanese psyche like nothing else, in fact I'd say there's barely one piece of Japanese pop culture that doesn't contain some reference to it. In Evangelion for example all the characters' last names are actually navy vessels used by the Japanese Imperial Navy. It's made for some very interesting themetical elements in Japanese cinema, the collective experience of essentially being a part of waging war for what ended up being an unjust and inevitably doomed cause. Though this is completely theoretical and conjecture and some may take offense, I even wonder if anime and all that, the fact that the Japanese love to draw themselves with large eyes and definitely more Caucasian features than Asiatic comes from a sort of deep national collective feeling of self loathing instilled by being defeated by America and most of the West. Hideaki Anno has kind of hinted that he sort of believes this, he once said that he thinks Japan's defeat and post-war subjugation has created a nation where a child-like mentality seems to reign supreme, ironic since McArthur called Japan a nation with the mind of a 12 year old boy. jlcarrozza.com Last Edited By: Uchujin65 Jun 18 11 10:59 PM. Edited 1 times.
	Remove this ad
gene phillips		#31	[-]
Jun 19 11 6:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Uchujin65 wrote: SparkieGojira wrote: Wow. Good call, Uchujin65. I've long thought that WW2 haunts everything from GOJIRA to GUNDAM and MACROSS in ways the casual viewer might not even want to perceive. WWII impacted the Japanese psyche like nothing else, in fact I'd say there's barely one piece of Japanese pop culture that doesn't contain some reference to it. In Evangelion for example all the characters' last names are actually navy vessels used by the Japanese Imperial Navy. It's made for some very interesting themetical elements in Japanese cinema, the collective experience of essentially being a part of waging war for what ended up being an unjust and inevitably doomed cause. Though this is completely theoretical and conjecture and some may take offense, I even wonder if anime and all that, the fact that the Japanese love to draw themselves with large eyes and definitely more Caucasian features than Asiatic comes from a sort of deep national collective feeling of self loathing instilled by being defeated by America and most of the West. Hideaki Anno has kind of hinted that he sort of believes this, he once said that he thinks Japan's defeat and post-war subjugation has created a nation where a child-like mentality seems to reign supreme, ironic since McArthur called Japan a nation with the mind of a 12 year old boy. I definitely agree with the assertion that much Japanese pop culture has never completely forgotten the doomed ideals of their WWII heritage. I have seen some long-running serials that generally avoid addressing it directly, like Takahashi's URUSEI YATSURA, but even these frequently touch on things like samurai ideals, though often comically. Self-loathing is a valid supposition, but it's also impossible to prove. Another valid supposition would be that when some of the early makers of anime, such as Tezuka, started planning to "invade" world markets, they may've emulated the already successful business model of Walt Disney, which also sported several characters with freaking big eyes (though not multicolored hair). NATURALISTIC! UNCANNY! MARVELOUS!
gorgozilla		#32	[-]
Jun 19 11 9:25 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The look of the old Japanese cartoons seems to be influenced by Disney to an extent, but I think the animation of Max Fleisher (Popeye, GULLIVER"S TRAVELS, the 40's Superman cartoons) was maybe an even bigger influence. Maybe unrelated, but has anyone else noticed how some of the old Japanese movie stars somewhat resembled Hollywood actors of the same period? Examples: Akira Takarada.....Rock Hudson Akihiko Hirata......Gregory Peck Kojiro Hongo........Gene Barry Kumi Mizuno........Marilyn Monroe Kenji Sahara.........just about every minor teen idol of the late 50's/early 60's The princess from Ghidrah looks like both Audrey Hepburn and Sophia Loren.
Uchujin65		#33	[-]
Jun 19 11 9:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There's definitely some marketability factors that lead to anime's development. I agree that the self loathing thing or desire to become Western since they were defeated by the West is impossible to prove. Gorgozilla raises an interesting point as well. Actually, both the Japanese and Chinese/Hong Kong (like Shaw Brothers) studios often cast lead actors who had some Western facial features and always relegated their "really Asian" looking actors to smaller roles. A few of the actresses at Shaw Brothers in fact underwent surgery to their eyelids, such as Shih Szu. Perhaps there's a weird undercurrent of self loathing and Anglophilia inherent in much of Asian culture. Why would "Western looks" be so marketable in Asian countries? jlcarrozza.com Last Edited By: Uchujin65 Jun 19 11 9:34 PM. Edited 1 times.
Cody Himes		#34	[-]
Jun 19 11 9:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	gorgozilla wrote: Maybe unrelated, but has anyone else noticed how some of the old Japanese movie stars somewhat resembled Hollywood actors of the same period? Akira Takarada.....Rock Hudson I was watching GODZILLA VS MOTHRA (1992) with my dad one time, and he thought that Akira Takarada looked like Stewart Granger, which I can definitely see.
gorgozilla		#35	[-]
Jun 20 11 12:04 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Uchujin65 wrote: Gorgozilla raises an interesting point as well. Actually, both the Japanese and Chinese/Hong Kong (like Shaw Brothers) studios often cast lead actors who had some Western facial features and always relegated their "really Asian" looking actors to smaller roles. Or actors that conform to what Westerners consider "Asian" looking. I do some part-time work as a n extra in movies and TV ads here in Korea, and I'm often passed over in favor of Russian actors for parts playing Americans. They tend to be tall and very pale, which is what Koreans think Americans "should" look like. I played a Greek news photographer in my last film and I was offered a role in a movie that had some Americans and Frenchmen as minor characters. The American parts (bigger roles) all went to Russians. I wasn't available at the time (packing for my next vacation actually), so I turned down the part of "Pierre". Uchujin65 wrote: Perhaps there's a weird undercurrent of self loathing and Anglophilia inherent in much of Asian culture. Or maybe certain parameters of physical beauty are universal. Or there's the "exotic" or "novelty" factor. If you look at paintings of Nyi Roro Kidul, the Queen of the South Sea, you'll see a big difference in how this beautiful and lethal legendary diety is portrayed by Indonesian vs Dutch artists. In the Indonesian paintings, she looks kind of like Catherine Zeta-Jones. In Dutch depictions, she looks like Whoopi Goldberg with Lucy Liu eyes (prominent cheekbones, thick lips, snub nose, very slanted eyes- every stereotyped "nonwhite" facial feature rolled together. Maybe to the Dutch, such a woman is considered "exotic". But to Indonesians, these pictures just look "ugly".
Patron Zero		#36	[-]
Sep 15 11 9:05 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Any film with Nick Adams is worth the bother to take in a screening, if only he had been the lead in The Green Slime !
Grant		#37	[-]
Sep 16 11 12:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I don't know if it's been mentioned here yet, but when it comes to actors with a non-Japanese look about them, one who strikes you right away is the "Hayata" actor in the original Ultraman. Even though he's the "Clark Kent" who supposedly does nothing heroic, he's still Ultraman at the same time, so you almost have to wonder. As for that line in Monster Zero about "escaping into time" followed by the explosion, it's funny, but I never saw that as a contradiction. Those explosions followed by something vanishing have always been a cliche - there are those small ones on The Time Tunnel, there's that huge puff of smoke when something or someone vanishes in a magic act, and so on. So even though it defintely LOOKS like the spaceship itself is exploding, I've always thought that the line about escaping into time was followed by them actually DOING it, and that explosion was just part of it somehow.
Hachigatsu		#38	[-]
Sep 16 11 1:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The line in the US dub is "We'll escape into the future; into that dimension we have never seen. All of you, join me in... escape!" August Ragone Author EIJI TSUBURAYA: MASTER OF MONSTERS Blog THE GOOD, THE BAD AND GODZILLA
Hachigatsu		#39	[-]
Sep 16 11 1:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm reading lots of very interesting speculation on the Japanese psyche, WW2 complexes, etc. It's amazing how we look at other cultures we know little or next to nothing about. Is that all we think of Japan? Samurai, Bushido, Suicide, and WW2? I mean, do we get into dissecting our own "American Xenophobia" in something like THE SPACE CHILDREN or I MARRIED A MONSTER FROM OUTER SPACE? Yes and no (but, mostly, "No"). We, as Americans, usually analyze our films by the measure of the Human Condition, in general, and not solely by our Culture or History. Sometimes the latter never even comes into play. But we always cite WW2 when discussing Japanese fantasy cinema. In fact, we bring that to the table more than the Japanese do — and that could stem from the guilt of dropping two A-Bombs on civilian targets. I'm sure if that if we read a foreign message board with folks discussing the "American anxiety over Peal Harbor" in analyzing the "excessive military aggression against the Martians" in THE WAR OF THE WORLDS, or finding subtext of Imperial-Capitalist Expansionism in THE AMAZING COLOSSAL MAN, or Civil War Complexes in THE DAY THE WORLD ENDED, we'd think that they were daft. Wouldn't we? This isn't an indictment — it's just an observation — simply some food for thought. August Ragone Author EIJI TSUBURAYA: MASTER OF MONSTERS Blog THE GOOD, THE BAD AND GODZILLA Last Edited By: Hachigatsu Sep 16 11 1:21 PM. Edited 2 times.
Uchujin65		#40	[-]
Sep 16 11 2:34 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hachigatsu wrote: I'm reading lots of very interesting speculation on the Japanese psyche, WW2 complexes, etc. It's amazing how we look at other cultures we know little or next to nothing about. Is that all we think of Japan? Samurai, Bushido, Suicide, and WW2? I mean, do we get into dissecting our own "American Xenophobia" in something like THE SPACE CHILDREN or I MARRIED A MONSTER FROM OUTER SPACE? Yes and no (but, mostly, "No"). We, as Americans, usually analyze our films by the measure of the Human Condition, in general, and not solely by our Culture or History. Sometimes the latter never even comes into play. But we always cite WW2 when discussing Japanese fantasy cinema. In fact, we bring that to the table more than the Japanese do — and that could stem from the guilt of dropping two A-Bombs on civilian targets. I'm sure if that if we read a foreign message board with folks discussing the "American anxiety over Peal Harbor" in analyzing the "excessive military aggression against the Martians" in THE WAR OF THE WORLDS, or finding subtext of Imperial-Capitalist Expansionism in THE AMAZING COLOSSAL MAN, or Civil War Complexes in THE DAY THE WORLD ENDED, we'd think that they were daft. Wouldn't we? This isn't an indictment — it's just an observation — simply some food for thought. Every country has an interesting political zeitgeist that very much embodies it, but ultimately it is all about the human condition. August, I for one definitely am not singling out the Japanese and like to bring America's sociological issues to table as well when discussing the deeper meaning of films. The entire genre of 50s sci-fi is basically America's cold war anxieties being played out. Our collective anxieties over the atomic age, fear of communism and the terrifying possibility of atomic oblivion that for some time seemed like it could happen at any day deeply pervades all of the films you mentioned just as Japan's very complex postwar sentiments pervades their media. And after Vietnam and Watergate American sci-fi and horror got much more cynical and nihilistic, untrustworthy authority figures suddenly became very common antagonists in many of these films whereas in the 50s and early 60s authority figures were depicted in such films with more respect. I feel like filmmakers, in any culture, often like to subconsciously deal with their culture's collective anxiety in the context of their art. jlcarrozza.com Last Edited By: Uchujin65 Sep 16 11 2:42 PM. Edited 3 times.
	Remove this ad

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Yuku free message boards

GODZILLA vs. MONSTER ZERO