Misleading Psycho in The Psycho Ward Forum

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Misleading Psycho

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Jimchig	Misleading Psycho	Lead	[-]
Nov 1 05 10:15 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I watched, and enjoyed, Pyscho once again last night. Now, I'm a very lenient viewer when it comes to movies. I'll bend over backwards to be entertained. Take, for instance, the scene when Martin Balsam falls down the stairs. Kinda silly, but I love it. But there's one thing about the film that bothers me and I can't seem to let it go. When Norman goes to the house and talks to his mother, the voice is not Perkins in falsetto, but that of some older woman. Now I realize that the surprise element hinges on not knowing if there is indeed a living mother, but in retrospect it seems misleading that we are led to believe there is a live woman involved. Am I misinterpreting this? Is the voice coming from Norman's mind and therefore it's the real voice of his departed mother we're hearing as he would?
Bill Warren	Re: Misleading Psycho	#1	[-]
Nov 1 05 1:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	message deleted
Jimchig	Re: Misleading Psycho	#2	[-]
Nov 1 05 2:18 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hitchcock's view is puzzling to me. Is that what they did in days gone by? Watch a horror film once and never see it again. Kinda makes sense in a non-tv world where you have to go to a theater. Probably not too many re-releases in the pre 50's theatrical market.
blackbiped	Re: Misleading Psycho	#3	[-]
Nov 1 05 2:42 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Even for one who grew up with TV, seeing a movie again after its theatrical release sometimes took years. And when it finally did show up on TV, you were likely to miss it. Also I think it was a fairly rare occurrence for a movie to be re-released unless it was a blockbuster that was sure to rake in a lot of cash. I always just got the impression that Norman had been imitating his mother's voice for so long that he'd become an expert at it. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
Jimchig	Re: Misleading Psycho	#4	[-]
Nov 1 05 2:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks for the info, Bill. I realize that I'm looking at this with fairly modern sensabilities. When my older relatives talked of seeing various movies, I'm sure I assumed they saw the first run instead of taking into account possible reruns. I also realize that movie makers cannot foresee the future and account for viewers watching their films many, many times. Sometimes scouring for mistakes, in super slo-mo, like monster seams or continuity errors or even comparing stunt man earlobes. Also, don't get me wrong. None of this takes anything away from this, or other, classics. I'm nitpicking, but I still love the film.
blackbiped	Re: Misleading Psycho	#5	[-]
Nov 1 05 3:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	We nitpick because we care. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
ryanbrennan	Re: Misleading Psycho	#6	[-]
Nov 2 05 1:57 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Another factor that mitigated against seeing a film too many times was that films didn't hang around for very long. Some theaters changed films every three or four days. Although, of course, there were exceptions, most films didn't play longer than a week. Here in Fort Worth, even as late as the early 1970s it was unusual for a film to be held over longer than three weeks (excluding the roadshow, reserved seat attractions). If you wanted to see a movie you really needed to hustle down to the theater. Some reissues I'm aware of, besides those already mentioned, include: HIGH SIERRA TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE KEY LARGO which were re-released in the early 1950s after Bogart won his Oscar for THE AFRICAN QUEEN (another film that was re-released in the late 1960s or early 1970s). I have a one-sheet for a re-release of MAN OF A THOUSAND FACES. BIRTH OF A NATION was slapped with some music and sound efx and re-released in the 1930s and continued to play on regularly till about 1939 from what I've read. PSYCHO would have stayed in release longer than most films, given its popularity, but the average filmgoer, even on a second or third go around, probably wouldn't have noticed the voice anyway.
TidesOfWerewolves	Re: Misleading Psycho	#7	[-]
Nov 2 05 2:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* "I always just got the impression that Norman had been imitating his mother's voice for so long that he'd become an expert at it." I drew the same conclusion. The fantasy had become so complex and real for him that it's impossible to know where she began and he ended.
Rick	Re: Misleading Psycho	#8	[-]
Nov 3 05 11:53 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* seeing a movie again after its theatrical release sometimes took years. And when it finally did show up on TV, you were likely to miss it. Also I think it was a fairly rare occurrence for a movie to be re-released unless it was a blockbuster that was sure to rake in a lot of cash. My sixth grade teacher gave away the whole secret plot of PSYCHO to our class the day after he'd seen the movie. I've always regretted having the surprise spoiled for me, but I've also understood it. In 1960, PSYCHO was supremely shocking and supremely adult. There was no way a room of pre-teens would be going to the theatre to see it. The chance of a re-release was unlikely and a film as shocking as PSYCHO could certainly never NEVER be shown on TV. That's the way it seemed in 1960, and when Mr. Flynn told us Norman Bates's twisted secret, I was actually grateful. After all, I assumed that I would obviously never have the privilege of seeing such a grown-up shocker. Plus, it was clear from Mr. Flynn's attitude, that he HAD to tell everyone he met about the movie. He was compelled. His excited demeanor as he told the story was quite a testament to the film's effect.
Mark Redfield	Re: Misleading Psycho	#9	[-]
Nov 5 05 11:17 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Am I misinterpreting this? Is the voice coming from Norman's mind and therefore it's the real voice of his departed mother we're hearing as he would? I don't think Hitchcock's cheating. In hindsight, I think the intention and development is two-fold: Marion (and the audience) are lead to believe Mrs. Bates is a living invalid. The first time that we hear Mrs. Bates, Marion hears it as well (the arguement in the house before Norman returns with sandwiches). So this very much means that Norman is talking to himself, creating a voice for the mother. (Even knowing Norman's secret can add some eerieness to the scene. I watch the film now and can imaging Norman screaming at himself in the gloom of the old house on the hill...) But the (multiple) female voices we hear later are in Norman's head. The clue is the variation of voices. The last clue for me (that most of the mother dialogue is in Norman's head) has always been the voice that we/Norman hears at the very end of the picture. Mark Redfield www.redfieldarts.com
Bobtheman	Mrs. Bates Voice	#10	[-]
Oct 2 06 11:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The psychiatrist who examined Bates said at the end of Psycho that Norman would dress up like her, talk in her voice, he tried to be his mother. The voice of the mother was never an issue to me after that explanation. I recall in the early 1960's that Psycho would only be shown after midnight on TV because the stations didn't want children to see it and in one case, a local paper didn't put it in the normal listings on television.
HalLane	Re: Misleading Psycho	#11	[-]
Oct 3 06 5:23 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* PSYCHO would have stayed in release longer than most films, given its popularity, but the average filmgoer, even on a second or third go around, probably wouldn't have noticed the voice anyway. Oh it certainly did stay in release longer than most films. I first saw it on a double bill with GOLDFINGER at the drive-in in Ft. Lauderdale in 1964. I don't feel that Mrs. Bates' voice(s) are a cheat or a mistake. Far from it, Hitchcock was, and still may be, the leading proponent of mis-direction in the cinema. Witness the trailer for PSYCHO, where Hitch guides a tour of the Bates Motel to the accompaniment of innocuous sit-com type music, and a clip of the shower curtain being pulled aside reveals a screaming Vera Miles! Indeed, the entire first act of the film itself leading up to that shower scene is the classic case of mis-direction.
yendor1152	Re: Misleading Psycho	#12	[-]
Oct 4 06 7:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Also, let us not forget that we actually SEE and hear Norman dressed as "mother" in Psycho III. When he/she talks, it's a very weird moment, and later--as "mother" climbs the stairs after that annoying woman reporter--she takes the time to straighten out a picture on the wall. Nice touch! Rod
mmoaks	Re: Misleading Psycho	#13	[-]
Oct 6 06 6:06 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Also, let us not forget that we actually SEE and hear Norman dressed as "mother" in Psycho III. This brings up something that occured to me when I was watching the Cavett/Hitchcock interview on TCM last week, in the original PSYCHO, do we know if that is Anthony Perkins himself as "mother" in the Leigh and Balsam killings? Or is it another actor/actress? Mike O'Connor * * * * * The Cubs made me a criminal, sent me down a wayward path, they stole my youth from me -Steve Goodman
Monsterpal	Re: Misleading Psycho	#14	[-]
Oct 6 06 9:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Oh it certainly did stay in release longer than most films. I first saw it on a double bill with GOLDFINGER at the drive-in in Ft. Lauderdale in 1964. Ah, those wonderful south Florida drive-ins of yesteryear. Did you ever go to one of those great dusk to dawn horroramas? They'd usually start with a fairly recent film and wind up at dawn with something like MAN BEAST.
Ted Newsom	Re: Misleading Psycho	#15	[-]
Oct 8 06 3:16 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gotcha beat on PSYCHO... I saw it at the Sandy Drive-In in Portland, Oregon (with Sally Sullivan... lord. Mmm) in 1968. That's a long time after its first release. Come to think of it, so was Sally. No, I don't know what it means, either.
Rick	Re: Mrs. Bates Voice	#16	[-]
Oct 9 06 12:25 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* I recall in the early 1960's that Psycho would only be shown after midnight on TV because the stations didn't want children to see it and in one case, a local paper didn't put it in the normal listings on television. I don't think this is quite accurate. The first scheduled TV showing of PSYCHO in September 1966 (on CBS, probably) was cancelled at the last minute because of the knife murder of Illinois Senator Charles Percy's daughter. The network was, I think, a bit touchy about showing the movie at all and quickly backed off when a young woman's stabbing death was national front-page news. I saw PSYCHO on tv in 1968 and--I believe--that was the first TV showing. Also, just to up the ante, I also saw PSYCHO at the drive-in in May of 1975. I was by myself...I mean...I was with Sally Sullivan. Yeah, sure, that's the ticket.
Bobtheman	Psycho TV Showings	#17	[-]
Oct 9 06 5:09 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Been a long time, can't remember when I saw it on TV first time. It could and probably was mid to late 1960's. But I do recall one time it was on TV, the TV guide that came in the newspapers showed the listings, and it had at 2:00 AM To Be Announced in the daily listings for one day. Then the last two pages where they showed movies showed during the week, Psycho was in that slot TBA I saw in the daily listings. I just assumed it wasn't in the earlier section due to the nature of the movie and they didn't want impressionable children to see it there. And they put it in that wee hour for the same reason.
yendor1152	Re: Psycho TV Showings	#18	[-]
Oct 9 06 9:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	QUOTE: "I don't think this is quite accurate. The first scheduled TV showing of PSYCHO in September 1966 (on CBS, probably) was cancelled at the last minute because of the knife murder of Illinois Senator Charles Percy's daughter. The network was, I think, a bit touchy about showing the movie at all and quickly backed off when a young woman's stabbing death was national front-page news. I saw PSYCHO on tv in 1968 and--I believe--that was the first TV showing." I'm 53 and can remember my parents talking about Psycho during its original release--that children weren't allowed in, etc. And like Rick, I, too, recall the film being scheduled by CBS in 1966--I was REALLY looking forward to it! But then it got cancelled because of that murder, and we had to wait almost 2 years before it was shown. If memory serves me right, that first showing was on Friday, March 1st, 1968. This date sticks in my mind because (1) I was a freshman in high school; (b) we had a big blizzard; (c) earlier in the evening, I watched "Master of the World" for the first time; and (d) Psycho was, at last, hitting the small screen! Later that year, I saw Psycho again, paired with The Anniversary (starring Bette Davis). This was at the drive-in, and Psycho bore its Paramount title card. Does anyone remember if The Birds was re-released? I think it was...maybe on a double bill with Psycho, at one point? Rod
davlghry	Separated At Birth?	#19	[-]
Oct 9 06 10:08 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I was watching a clip from an old Dean Martin Show and was struck by the physical similarities betweeen Jonathan Winters' Maude Frickert and Anthony Perkins' Mother drag. Same costume and wig! "I stabbed her ALLLLLLL over her body."
HalLane	Re: Psycho TV Showings	#20	[-]
Oct 9 06 1:41 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Does anyone remember if The Birds was re-released? Yep. double bill with MARNIE. I was already familiar with both PSYCHO and GOLDFINGER, so I'm thinking late 1965 or maybe '66?

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