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Dec 10 11 11:36 PM
Dec 11 11 12:45 AM
Dec 11 11 1:13 AM
I've heard that rumor, and we mentioned that amazon seller story in our spider pit article. Both are groundless without proof, and there ain't any. Besides, if the stuff's going to show up, it'll be on 35mm. The only way it'd ever show up on 16mm is if the 35mm footage somehow got smuggled out of the studio, and this person then struck a 16mm print off it and either gave it to someone or else kept it for himself. Then this person or persons would have to keep it a deep dark secret for decades. Said person would then have to approach Warner Brothers with an extortion offer, then disappear again when they didn't meet his price... if money was what they really wanted, someone would surely meet their price on ebay alone.
A perfect Monster has no end...
Dec 11 11 1:35 AM
There are countries that use 16mm prints for projection. The Philippines is one of them. Portions of Europe have used 16mm prints for many years. Reduction prints from 35 mm prints was in no way and uncommon practice in any of these countries. In addition more than one film collector has had a 16mm reduction print made of sections of the 35mm print that had scenes they did not have if they found good 35mm copies. The strong likelihood is that if the print exists with collectors it is a 16mm that would've been made from a 35mm nitrate. I'm not saying it was made. I'm saying it being 16mm is a strong likelihood.
Dec 11 11 1:38 AM
Dec 11 11 6:53 AM
G Vallejo wrote:I've heard that rumor, and we mentioned that amazon seller story in our spider pit article. Both are groundless without proof, and there ain't any. Besides, if the stuff's going to show up, it'll be on 35mm. The only way it'd ever show up on 16mm is if the 35mm footage somehow got smuggled out of the studio, and this person then struck a 16mm print off it and either gave it to someone or else kept it for himself. Then this person or persons would have to keep it a deep dark secret for decades. Said person would then have to approach Warner Brothers with an extortion offer, then disappear again when they didn't meet his price... if money was what they really wanted, someone would surely meet their price on ebay alone.
Dec 11 11 6:42 PM
Dec 12 11 1:50 AM
BartPierce wrote:As you're, no doubt aware, most of the original test reel that was shot for the RKO executives is in the film (from end of bronto sequence to vulture flying off dead T Rex). If you have had dealings with true, avid film collectors (and they trust you) you have seen prints with portions not available in contemporary prints. I can state this with unequivical certainty because I have managed to return some of this material to public view. It is not beyond the pale to believe that a collector has this material. It is unfortunate but not totally unlikely.
Dec 12 11 5:58 AM
Dec 12 11 8:59 AM
Dec 12 11 11:43 AM
Dec 12 11 11:57 AM
G Vallejo wrote: If it got moved it was probably moved in bulk with other reels/boxes, or else some 9-to-5 slob moved it and then got old and died without ever knowing that people were looking for this stuff. That it survives the cutting room floor is pretty certain... Cooper said the footage was there when he left RKO.
Dec 12 11 8:25 PM
Dec 12 11 8:32 PM
No Jade, I didn’t interpret
your comments as attacks. This site is a welcome source of spirited discussion
and knowledge to me and others. I know you’re familiar with many of our earlier
discussions on this thread. There are a lot of very knowledgeable and
passionate individuals on these pages whom I respect and enjoy and they have supplied me with other very
valid and insightful points of view that have been very helpful and instructive.
I believe that the more information that is out there the greater the likelihood
of these materials coming to light. I’m glad to hear you’re making an effort to
take a look yourself. My experience is that being able to give a clear picture
of the material you’re looking for (16mm, 35mm, nitrate, full print or short
reel) to the people you’re speaking to helps facilitate they’re help.
I posted this piece
on another site to let people know the difficulties involved in locating lost
footage. I hope it might help you. And please don’t let any of this discourage
you. Sometimes a simple and sincere request in the right ear is as effective as
all the power of a large company. Good Luck!
Here it is:
the legal licensors of KONG can make requests of these film vaults. To add to
the problem, Kong has changed legal hands over the years, both in the U.S and
in the various countries around the world. Just since the 1980s the rights to KONG
were transferred from MGM/UA to Turner Broadcasting to Warner Bros. Similar
distribution rights issues have occurred in a variety of oversees countries.
When these exchanges occur, and films are shifted physically or legally to
other parties, sometimes materials are not perfectly transferred to the new
owner. But once the legal transfer has taken place the opportunity and right to
go back and look again for lost material is impossible without the
authorization of the former owner who has no financial interest to drive them.
This is not to mention, most companies are not hot on the idea of allowing
another company routing around in their property and past records (Would you
want your major competitors to be going through your detailed past?). Unless
there is some driving financial (ex: setting technical standards for digital
distribution) or political (ex: broad popular opinion) reason these companies
do not come together. The major studios have been ferocious competitors for 100
This is how things get lost. The preservationist is not
granted the opportunity to look even when there may be compelling evidence
because there is no political or financial juice to motivate those that may
have legal access.
A good example of political and financial interest is
the recent release/restoration of KING KONG 1933. Warner Bros. was releasing a
new multimillion dollar movie: KING KONG 2005, directed by the highly in
demand, Peter Jackson. Jackson was wooed to Warner because he loved the
original KING KONG 1933 and had a lifelong desire to remake it. The political
wooing of PJ led to the high profile restoration of KING KONG 1933 which also
served a financial interest by promoting the upcoming release of the new KING
KONG 2005 as well as giving good press for spending so much time and money on a
publicly popular restoration. And Warners did a wonderful job. But even Warners
did not have the juice to check every nook and cranny.
Warner chose to give Peter Jackson a lot of money to
completely recreate the Spider Pit Sequence by recreating archaic film
processes (a wonderful act of film archeology) rather than face the uncertain
political morass of searching the worldwide archives they had no legal or
political access to.
The recent location of a previously unknown piece of
silent film era stop motion animation was discovered because an animator
happened to see a marked film can while he was in a film vault for another
reason. Sheer luck (and an informed pair of eyes).
That said, these political morasses can be untangled by
finding the proper string to pull. Find the string and know how to pull it.
This site is one of the important strings. It shines a light on the knots and
leads the way. And it’s also a lot of fun.
Dec 12 11 9:22 PM
Dec 12 11 11:34 PM
Dec 13 11 1:29 AM
Dec 13 11 5:56 AM
It seems the only - the ONLY - hope is that someone in the tech department, or some collector who got an inside track, stole the pre-release edit trims.
Dec 13 11 11:05 AM
Dec 18 11 2:45 PM
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