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Cueva Muerte wrote:

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Well, after watching the oldest transfers I have, the only explanation I can come up with is that the German print has a purer reproduction of the original soundtrack.  Practically all extant domestic prints of KONG were taken from a 1942 production code censored print that has the midpoint of the log-rolling (where the sound effect in question occurs) ending with a reel change.  On the old prints the end of reel marks show up just after Kong's offscreen roar occurs meaning that the soundtrack was partially blanked (and the sound effect shortened) when the marks were punched in.  The track was probably OK on the '33 print (when it would have been transferred from the camera original negative) and the blanking must have happened when they started printing a generation away.  The German print probably has different reel cuts.  By the time Warners gave KONG a going over for video restoration, the '42 track was retained, smoothed-over audio-wise, the end-of-reel marks removed so it looks as though there's no reason for the audio damping.  That, at least is my supposition.  Too bad Warners wasn't as on-the-ball as BartPierce was!  Well done, Bart. As for me...never too old to learn!  Keep those surprises coming guys.  These threads are an education!

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I believe you are correct about the different edit points on the English/domestic version of Kong and the German version. It is most likely the reel change that caused the audio edit. I'm going to check the French version to see if it has a similar audio edit. I'm unfamiliar with the 1942 release, but, I do know that the prints used for the recent Warner release were foreign prints that had never been edited for content and were still the original 100 min. length with all of the original (violent or titillating) scenes still intact, unlike the domestic American version (which they did not use). None of these scenes were reinserted they were simply part of the English (also the French, and German) source material (I believe they mostly used  the English version for legal reasons as the materials belong to different companies in different countries). The English material is also in excellent shape. I tend to think that this abrupt edit of the moan/roar was something that occurred a long time ago when two 1000 foot reels were spliced together as a 2000 foot real for projection.

I'm glad you are finally able to hear what I'm speaking of and, of course, that your statement still supports my contention that this could be the sound of one of the pit creatures that was simply not edited out. I'll update this site when I him able to check the French version and any other foreign dubs I'm able to acquire. Thanks guys.

  

Cueva Muerte wrote:

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One thing I'd forgotten about while looking at that scene are the two examples of missing frames as Kong comes 'round to the log:  the first as he beats his chest and the second as he approaches the log when Driscoll climbs down the vine; two likely spots where there was probably a cutaway to the Arsinoitherium on the opposite bank.

Are you referring to missing frames in only the German version?

Restoring classic films is an uneven process
As to whether or not these restorations of Kong have been well handled and whether there are film archives around the world that have all of this well-documented:

Many of the high profile restorations, such as Kong, are documented in the museums that have received prints. How well-documented they are depends upon the involvement of the museum. Usually, it is only restoration efforts backed by financially interested parties (i.e. a studio, copyright holder or a validated museum) that get (financially) supported.

Films like King Kong represent a significant financial interest to those who own them. Not to sound cynical, but I it is called "show business" (accent on "business") not "show art," or "show craft," or "show restoration." How these titles are handled also reflects upon the reputation of the films owners. It makes them touchy when someone has an interest in something that belongs to them (you wouldn't want a stranger showing too much interest in your checkbook or your wife).

The film world is a maze of conflicting agendas that is in constant flux and is an ongoing challenge to navigate. Sometimes mutual benefit brings the interested parties (museums, archives, studios, owners, etc.) together. But, this is not an organized process. It moves forward in spurts and starts.

Usually it is those (sometimes within the studio, sometimes without) with the passion and love of the material that are the impetus that results in these films being found (the recent discovery of the original edit of HOROR OF DRACULA 1958 is an example). Many times it is a similar passion, the passion of collectors, that has resulted in some of these classics having been saved from the trash bin (unfortunately, collectors and film studios have not had a good relationship over the years and there is frequently no love lost between them. Please refer to the "checkbook/wife" comment made above).

I am dedicated to finding the lost Spider Pit Sequence.

JadeExecutioner wrote:

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Yes, I read your post at the time. Still, I think that would be very unlikely that someone would be holding onto such treasures and the news wouldn't have surfaced, even as a persistent rumor.

Actually, there have been consistant rumors. We just don't know and can't confirm they are true until we see them with our own eyes. I'm contiuing my efforts to let us see these scenes because I have become convinced by these rumors that the material still exists.

  

There have been popular rumors for years. Reports of people seeing some part of, or a complete squence of, the Spider Pit sequence. The most recent were in europe in the 80's. Others that are well reported are of the sequence being seen in the Phillipines in the 70s. The best known is probably Ray Bradbury saying he saw it on it's initial release. There are other reports also and I am slowly, but, methodically running them down. I don't want to encourage rumors as much as I want to ecourage hope. To that end I do not want to report every clue or rumor I find. I can say that the popular rumors are by no means the only ones and that I am kept busy following the other ones.