Spider Pit Article is now available to read online (with pics!) in Kong

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Spider Pit Article is now available to read online (with pics!)

Author	Comment
G Vallejo	Spider Pit Article is now available to read online (with pics!)	Lead	[-]
Aug 30 10 1:02 AM More My Recent Posts	So I decided to quit everything I was doing this weekend and at least get this off my plate. Here's the article that appeared in Filmfax last year, "Lost Nightmare: Mystery of the Missing Spider Pit Sequence." http://www.mediafire.com/?nszyx0h67oadwnv Click the link, download the PDF, open and read! Caution: I made it with Acrobat 4, which is about 10 years old now, but the PDF read fine on my laptop, which uses the latest reader. If you can't see it, post here... the only thing I can do after that is make JPGs of each page and post them up. If you DON'T have Acrobat, such search around for Adobe Acrobat and download the free reader. PDF files are useful things to have, as you'll soon see. I redesigned it, using all the pictures we sent to Filmfax... minus the DVD screencaps they provided. I also wrote all the captions this time out. Hope you enjoy! Here's some samples, shrunk for convenience: Skeletonpete, after thinking about it, I decided not to add the Dore pics at this point. It's really a different sort of article. If I do insert them in at some point, I'll be sure to credit you. A perfect Monster has no end...
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Rick		#1	[-]
Aug 30 10 1:05 AM More My Recent Posts	Thanks for that, Gary. I missed one of the parts when published in Filmfax, so it's especially great to get it all in one place.
Monster Jungle Xray		#2	[-]
Aug 30 10 9:07 AM More My Recent Posts	Thanks Gary, this was indeed a great read.
delgadosaur		#3	[-]
Aug 30 10 12:58 PM More My Recent Posts	Thanks for this. What a great article.
bobzilla		#4	[-]
Aug 30 10 1:27 PM More My Recent Posts	Thanks, Gary. I THINK I read this when it came out, but I'll gladly read it again.
Rakshasa		#5	[-]
Aug 30 10 2:50 PM More My Recent Posts	Awesome, Gary. Thanks so much for sharing your hard work with us free of charge. I caught the first two parts in Filmfax when they came out, but I missed the rest. Looking forward to checking out the complete work in one read! Links To All The Classic Monster Stills I've Posted: http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuku.com/topic/30758
skeletonpete		#6	[-]
Aug 31 10 6:41 PM More My Recent Posts	G Vallejo wrote: Skeletonpete, after thinking about it, I decided not to add the Dore pics at this point. It's really a different sort of article. If I do insert them in at some point, I'll be sure to credit you. Gotcha Gary, I was glad to supply the Dore scans none-the-less. The article looks great, opens in Preview 4.2 perfectly for the Mac folks. Looking forward to enjoying the complete piece this evening. Best, Pete Last Edited By: skeletonpete Aug 31 10 8:29 PM. Edited 1 times.
Rakshasa		#7	[-]
Sep 1 10 6:33 PM More My Recent Posts	Man oh man, that was an exhaustive (in a good way) and intense read. Thanks again, Gary. Nice work! Links To All The Classic Monster Stills I've Posted: http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuku.com/topic/30758
johnnyraincheck		#8	[-]
Sep 2 10 9:30 AM More My Recent Posts	Excellent article, thanks!
hermanthegerm		#9	[-]
Sep 2 10 7:24 PM More My Recent Posts	"Two legs are easier to animate than four...." Maybe, but the Dore engravings already show two legged reptiles: So it is likely that they were readily embraced for that from their conception, rather than that the Kong reptiles were reduced from four legs were to a mere two in an effort to simplify their animation. GREAT article. Thanks for posting! "There is a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom when something blows up, so I'll give them a boom." George Lucas as quoted by Harlan Ellison's WATCHING Last Edited By: hermanthegerm Sep 2 10 7:29 PM. Edited 2 times.
G Vallejo		#10	[-]
Sep 3 10 12:43 AM More My Recent Posts	I don't know... there's no rational explanation for a two legged lizard, whatever the influence Dore might have had on the Kong team. The Dore pictures are clearly fantasies, after all, while Kong was supposed to have at least some basis in fact. Plus, while the vine-crawler definitely only has two legs, I think the other lizard has 4. I don't think it was intended that people notice it only has two legs. I didn't for the longest time. It's hard to tell in both pictures, but it looks to me like the pit lizard has hind legs. Don't ask me why they didn't use him for the Driscoll scene. And thanks! A perfect Monster has no end...
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COPProd		#11	[-]
Sep 3 10 2:43 AM More My Recent Posts	Count me in as one of the guys who did not notice the vinecrawler was missing his rear legs until the release of Kong on DVD. Just after the DVD came out, I noticed something else. The lizards on the Aurora Kong base are FAIRLY accurate renditions of the vinecrawler (actually they are MORE accurate than Kong himself, LOL) So I guess forty some odd years ago w/o the benefit of home video or screengrabs or the internet, the guy who sculpted the pattern for the plastic model remembered that on Skull Island lizards (well, at least SOME lizards) were bipeds, LOL. Tom Last Edited By: COPProd Sep 3 10 2:46 AM. Edited 1 times.
skeletonpete		#12	[-]
Sep 3 10 3:44 AM More My Recent Posts	G Vallejo wrote: It's hard to tell in both pictures, but it looks to me like the pit lizard has hind legs. Don't ask me why they didn't use him for the Driscoll scene. I've always believed there was one lizard animation model, just redressed - sleeked down - for vine climbing sequence. Love the article, excellent research and well substantiated hypotheses. So great to have all this information in one place. Thanks for taking the time to put it together for us. Pete
bobzilla		#13	[-]
Sep 3 10 9:47 AM More My Recent Posts	I never noticed the lizard had only two legs, either. But, seeing how much of the lizard was shown, I'd say they just didn't put the other two legs on since it wouldn't be seen anyway. It also looked like it was actually climbing the rock, not the vine, so cutting the vine shouldn't really have done anything.
hermanthegerm		#14	[-]
Sep 3 10 10:50 AM More My Recent Posts	Maybe what you guys say is true, but we've noticed the two legs since we were kids. It's not hidden, so I suspect it is meant to be noticed for its bizarre quality (same as the Dore.) "There is a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom when something blows up, so I'll give them a boom." George Lucas as quoted by Harlan Ellison's WATCHING
todmichel		#15	[-]
Sep 3 10 3:38 PM More My Recent Posts	I have read the entire article and it's really excellent. However, I disagree with the following argument: "As we noted, Pellerin and Jackson discovered Steiner never scored the spider pit sequence. This virtually ensures that no audience ever saw the footage, since there is little chance that an unscored edit of the film made it over to Asia, or that a scored version containing an unscored sequence was released." Sorry, but this happened for another movie of the same period, and not only in prints "seen in Asia", but shown everywhere. BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN was originally over 90 mins, and later re-edited, some scenes entirely cut, and an additional sequence was filmed in order to cover the discrepancies caused by the deletions. This sequence (the one with the Bohemians) is the only one without music.
Tim Smyth		#16	[-]
Sep 3 10 4:28 PM More My Recent Posts	todmichel wrote: Sorry, but this happened for another movie of the same period, and not only in prints "seen in Asia", but shown everywhere. BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN was originally over 90 mins, and later re-edited, some scenes entirely cut, and an additional sequence was filmed in order to cover the discrepancies caused by the deletions. This sequence (the one with the Bohemians) is the only one without music. You are going to have to explain this one more clearly, as in when was the film film 90 minutes, and when was it cut down. Was it before, during, after the release? Tim
todmichel		#17	[-]
Sep 3 10 5:02 PM More My Recent Posts	The movie was running 92 mns at its preview, and cut for release. The additional scene was shot when the movie was already scored, so there's no music in it. I'm not really trying to find any similarity with KING KONG, it was just an example of a scored version containing an unscored sequence and released - so, even if the "Filipino print" of KONG is probably a hoax, the argument given by the writers of the KONG article is not a "proof" in itself.
Tim Smyth		#18	[-]
Sep 3 10 5:33 PM More My Recent Posts	Interesting. Some scenes in Bride are a little brisk, I wonder if this was due to the re-editing. The scene where they capture the monster and then he breaks free a second later for instance. The circumstances are similar to Kong, and what could happen, in fact this probably happened a lot back then, we just haven't caught on to it. Thanks Todmichael for the additional info, I will have to check out the Bride threads to see if there is any more good stuff there. Tim
G Vallejo		#19	[-]
Sep 3 10 6:45 PM More My Recent Posts	todmichel wrote: I have read the entire article and it's really excellent. However, I disagree with the following argument: "As we noted, Pellerin and Jackson discovered Steiner never scored the spider pit sequence. This virtually ensures that no audience ever saw the footage, since there is little chance that an unscored edit of the film made it over to Asia, or that a scored version containing an unscored sequence was released." Sorry, but this happened for another movie of the same period, and not only in prints "seen in Asia", but shown everywhere. BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN was originally over 90 mins, and later re-edited, some scenes entirely cut, and an additional sequence was filmed in order to cover the discrepancies caused by the deletions. This sequence (the one with the Bohemians) is the only one without music. Yeah, but that seems like a deliberate choice by the filmmakers, meaning they didn't forget to score it... they just didn't bother to score that scene. They released it that way. Kong was intended to be a fully scored film (yes, I know, the silence in bits like the T-Rex fights was deliberate and also counts) like every other film. If, by some chance, a print got out with the spider scene, the giant snake, and who knows what else--and no music--it was not meant to do so. Plus, Cooper states categorically in one of his letters that the spider scene never got out to the public in any version of the film. I would doubt that it played anywhere without his knowledge, although it is possible, I guess. Perhaps I should have elaborated and say it was extremely unlikely it got out accidentally, but it's so unlikely I still think my statement's good. A perfect Monster has no end...
HalLane		#20	[-]
Sep 3 10 7:23 PM More My Recent Posts	<< I would doubt that it played anywhere without his knowledge, although it is possible, I guess. Perhaps I should have elaborated and say it was extremely unlikely it got out accidentally << Alternate or additional footage made the rounds more than once in those days. Look no further than those wacky prints of SON OF FRANKENSTEIN, which were edited after the fact by diverse hands, much like the BRIDE scenario Todmichel describes, but following its initial release. Then there's the overseas prints of O'Brien's own THE LOST WORLD, which was made up I think pretty much entirely of outtakes and retakes (much of which is in the version we know today). The various NOSFERATU versions come to mind too. The crazy quilt mosaic that is THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. The overseas ending of IDIOT'S DELIGHT. The 1945 version of THE BIG SLEEP, which went straight to military bases overseas, where they frequently received Hollywood product early during the war years. And the b/w version of DR. X, which was entirely re-shot by a different cameraman. I'm sure there's more. The point being, it's not unthinkable, given what seems standard practices of those decades, that rogue footage might turn up offshore. I kinda like the idea that the spider scenes were used as a "place holder" while the movie was being scored. Last Edited By: HalLane Sep 3 10 7:26 PM. Edited 1 times.
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Spider Pit Article is now available to read online (with pics!)

Spider Pit Article is now available to read online (with pics!)