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bobgray2000 wrote:

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I wouldn't bring this up except for the fact that this is the nth time
this has happened, and I think it's reflective of the greater prejudice
at large. 


Whenever I have a discussion about the Godzilla films with some one, every time I bring up evidence about the significance of Godzilla films in the Japanese movie industry (such as Kurosawa/Honda connection, the large budgets of the early Godzilla films, the presence of acclaimed Japanese actors in these films, Ifukube's stature, etc.), the opposing party just ups and leaves. 

Is the shock of discovering that Godzilla films are
"genetically" related to Akira Kurosawa films too much for the average US
film goer to handle?


Take a look at this comment:

Honestly, I don't mind if Godzilla movies are seen as cheap and cheesy
because they are. I do, however mind that they dismiss them because of
that. What kind of film snobs dismiss these movies because they're
cheesy? Do we have to sit and watch an Oscar winner all the time? No. I
can't stand half that crap they nominate.



Godzilla movies, with the exception and Gojira and Return of Gojira,
are escapist movies. Now, they do have their charm. I've cried at the
end of Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, so they're definitely not without merit.
Honestly, I watch the dubbed version because I do like the cheesiness
factor they add. Granted, that's not to say I'm opposed to watching the
subtitled versions, but as an American fan, I like seeing them with
silly voices. It doesn't take anything away from the movies in my mind. I
don't know, I can't explain it. I have watched some subtitled. By the
way, it's the main reason I like Godzilla vs. Gigan more than other
Godzilla fans because the monsters never spoke in the Japanese version,
but I was prewarned about that before watching it. No, it's not one of
the better ones, but I liked it.



Anyway, I do agree that Americans need to give them another chance. I
was reintroduced to the films by the Angry Video Game Nerd. I saw his
reviews on the Godzilla movies and thought they looked cool, so I
decided to check them out.

and my reply:

But you're not familiar with the Japanese actors as much as Japanese
viewers are. For those of us who are familiar with these actors and
admire their true performances, we find it incomprehensible that anyone
could want to screw up their voices to the extent that they do. What
about Yoshio Tsuchiya, who got started in several productions with Akira
Kurosawa? Did you even blink when he appeared in Godzilla vs. King Ghidora?



http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0875237/bio



For crying out loud, he even wrote a biography on Kurosawa which a lot of fans of Japanese cinema wholeheartedly admire:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE-gwKeCk-8


http://www.amazon.co.jp/クロサワさーん-―黒沢明との素晴らしき日々-土屋-嘉男/dp/410432101X/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280003913&sr=8-23

Did you know this? Probably not. But given that this man has
earned his fair share of merits and accolades from critics and scholars
in his own home country, why the hell should we be so quick to dismiss
his presence JUST because he's acting in a Godzilla film?



It's like Gary Oldman playing a part in that less than great film, The Unborn.
It's the same situation--an A-grade actor in a B-grade film. Sure a
lot of people disliked the movie, but everyone was quick to point out
Gary Oldman's presence in it; because he's a great actor and can't be
ignored.

Imagine if a studio had the guts to dub him over with a trashy
voice...fans and critics would be outraged as it definitely take away
from what little impact the film had.



Likewise, why should the situation be the same for Yoshio Tsuchiya?
Almost all American Godzilla fans I have met NEVER point out Yoshio
Tsuchiya's presence in a Godzilla movie. They are BLIND to the native
talent that make up these films.



Same for the other actors too. What about Takashi Shimura, whom the
New York Times once proclaimed as "the greatest actor ever"? Why does
nobody mention his presence in the Godzilla films?



http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0793766/bio



What about Eisei Amamoto, a very versatile character actor from the
60's with a wonderfully deep voice and sinister complexion who played in
TONS of Japanese productions. Why would anyone have the nerve to screw
over his performance just so ignorant English speakers can get kicks
out of listening to a badly dubbed voice?



http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0023862/bio



I could go on and on. But the point is, ignorance has caused the
general American public to ignore the positive traits of these films and
to approach them with a "cheesy, good fun" outlook easily forgetting
the fact that they were produced by the same studio that produced many
different critically acclaimed A+ Japanese films, and featured much of
the same talent behind the camera.



If people would only ACKNOWLEDGE the aforementioned talent behind
the camera, then I would be satisfied. But that will never be...because
ignorance is widespread and the cultural gap separating the Japanese
and American viewing public is too large.

And...no response from anyone.  I don't even get a simple "Hmm...I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.  However, I don't think it really matters because...blah blah blah."  Instead the thread goes dead and the opposing user continues to write biased misinformed comments about these films on other threads.

I guess that means that I've proven my point then without controversy.

bobgray2000 wrote:

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TheCreep wrote:

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Very nice of you to bring up Mr. Tsuchiya...he is a favorite actor of mine. The Human Vapor was fantastic.



His role was a rather large one in the 1990's remake of G vs. King Ghidorah. Not only was he the commander of the Japanese garrison on Lagos island, but his post WW2 character of Mr. Shindo had a large outcome in the movie's finale. I pointed him out right away.



As to Mr. Shimura, one of his best roles was in "Drunken Angel" where he played a doctor trying to cure a Yakuza member of his tuberculosis. And he also played the older, wisened, street cop alongside Toshiro Mifune in "Stray Dog, a very good "buddy cop" movie from 1950 if I recall right.



Shimura also played the uncle of the main character in the film "Hakuchi" which was a very sad film.



Many Americans may not see farther than just Godzilla, but I, like you, appreciate the roles these people have played. And if our fellow Americans are that snobby that they refuse to accept the Kurosawa\Toho\Godzilla connection, then the hell with em.'

Yes, I also love Tsuchiya too.  Very unique and versatile actor.  He's not only versatile in his physical performances, but he's also versatile with his voice also (remember the Planet X commander?), and hence, the basis of my argument.  If you dub him over, you're missing out on a part of the experience.  And if you call him a "trashy actor", then you're just plain wrong.

Edkkakumon wrote:

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The subtitled editions of Godzilla and Japanese films do make the films more meaningful. Godzilla, King of the Monsters is a good movie, but Gojira adds layers that make it more effective. The Japanese dialogue and themes do help to better see the film.

I see your point, Bob. Godzilla is seen as just another giant monster from the 50s in the U.S. They're entertainment, and little else. They often do ignore the fact that the actors have done other movies, but all actors are like that. Patrick Stewart will always be known for his Star Trek role, but he's also done acclaimed work on stage and featured in other popular films. It seems like when they see a Japanese film without a giant monster, alien, or other sci fi trapping, it's of little interest.