The Devils Rain... in '70s Horror and Sci-Fi Forum

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Jason at Terror Transmission		#61	[-]
Nov 30 09 12:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It is either LaVey or a diabolically nazified Charles Middleton! Great picture!
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Jason at Terror Transmission		#62	[-]
Nov 30 09 12:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yep, Cotten was involved with the CoS. You would have to go to someone else for exact dates, but it must have been in the late sixties or early seventies era. Along with Barbara McNair, Sammy Davis Jr., Jayne Mansfield, Keenan Wynn, Elke Sommer, Robert Fuest (for a spell), and best of all....Forry Ackerman!!!! And those are just the ones that allowed themselves to be mentioned. Who knows how many more notables reside behind the CoS's veil of secrecy. Last Edited By: Jason at Terror Transmission Nov 30 09 12:41 PM. Edited 1 times.
Southern Beau		#63	[-]
Nov 30 09 1:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ackerman was a devout atheist. Keenan Wynn and Joseph Cotten may have, at some point, come in contact with LaVey. That doesn't mean they were members. In fact, as I understand it, LaVey was really good about giving away memberships to celebrities who weren't interested (claiming at one point Christopher Lee was a closet member) all in an effort to self prompt. Mansfield and Davis Jr. were, indeed, members. That we know to be true. However, it is my understanding they were not Satanists, but either done for publicity or viewed it as a social outlet. Elke Sommer is an unknown factor to me. So could you please clarify how these individuals were involved?
Buzz Dixon		#64	[-]
Nov 30 09 1:55 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A recent book on Sammy Davis Jr.'s various legal problems indicates he was in it for the sex. www.SnokieStories.com www.BuzzDixon.com http://twitter.com/snokiestories
Earl Roesel.scarletstreet		#65	[-]
Nov 30 09 2:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You may find this of some small interest... http://www.famousmonstersoffilmland.com/punning-with-the-devil/
Dr Acula		#66	[-]
Nov 30 09 3:01 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Earl Roesel wrote: You may find this of some small interest... http://www.famousmonstersoffilmland.com/punning-with-the-devil/ A cool article, E.R. - in fact, this thread has taken an interesting left-hand path turn that seems to pit one set of research trying to say that LeVay had very little to do with various films, to other sets of research saying he did have a good bit to do on those various film, and how the "truth", i.e. the commonly held idea of what really happened, is being shaped by parties with vested interest in either playing up Anton's involvement, playing it down, or just trying to report the facts. I think I'd have to give the edge to the Satanic Screen book over Screem Magazine, though it could just be a bias towards books as more truthful. I'd love for a researcher I believe in, like Weaver, Warren, or Roesel to look into the full story of Satanic involvment in Hollywood, it would be a great read! Mr. Cotton's involvment in Satanism could be similar to Dennis Wilson's slight involvment with the Manson family - Dennis loved the ladies, and he was impressed by Manson's mind control of women, nothing more. If satanism had a similar allure, I could see that being appealing to any decent hedonist.
Jason at Terror Transmission		#67	[-]
Nov 30 09 3:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wonderful and touching thanks for the link! I like to think that Forry and Anton are sharing a belly-laugh together in the great beyond.
Robert Andrew		#68	[-]
Nov 30 09 9:41 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dr. Acula wrote I think I'd have to give the edge to the Satanic Screen book over Screem Magazine, though it could just be a bias towards books as more truthful. You might want to take look back a couple of pages in this thread to get the low-down on Schrek before you want admit to any bias towards his "work".
Robert Andrew		#69	[-]
Nov 30 09 9:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Southern Beau wrote: Ackerman was a devout atheist. Keenan Wynn and Joseph Cotten may have, at some point, come in contact with LaVey. That doesn't mean they were members. In fact, as I understand it, LaVey was really good about giving away memberships to celebrities who weren't interested (claiming at one point Christopher Lee was a closet member) all in an effort to self prompt. Mansfield and Davis Jr. were, indeed, members. That we know to be true. However, it is my understanding they were not Satanists, but either done for publicity or viewed it as a social outlet. Elke Sommer is an unknown factor to me. So could you please clarify how these individuals were involved? Look it up yourself.
Dr Acula		#70	[-]
Nov 30 09 10:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Satanic Screen was published by Creation Books, a decent little niche publisher (the writer has an obvious axe to grind though). Screem magazine is (and I'm not faulting them for this) a popular magazine. In an academic sense, the book could be utilized as a source of information easily and more persuasively in a paper than a popular magazine article, which is why I would give Satanic Screen an "edge", which acknowledging authorial bias. Both articles seem to be about reducing the amount of LeVay's influence on the Devil's Rain though, as opposed to the comments on this thread by Robert Andrew indicating that there was more LeVay influence than either Satanic Screen or the Screem article indicates (which dovetails nicely into what Earl Roesel (a poster whose opinions and thoughts I trust) was talking about, a washing of his influence on those films, Devil's Rain in particular, due to the director not addressing it in his commentary).
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Earl Roesel.scarletstreet		#71	[-]
Nov 30 09 11:06 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Even Michael Aquino, who most certainly cannot be considered a LaVey lackey, indicated what an influence ASL had on THE DEVIL'S RAIN (cf. The Church of Satan, Dr. LaVey Rises Again chapter). LaVey's "technical advisor" credit encompassed the duties of set designer, screenwriter, actor and vocal coach for the Mexican extras in their efforts to speak Enochian. Clearly his presence was more than perfunctory. Something else to bear in mind; LaVey always maintained that the true Satanist is he who puts to practical application the tenets outlined in The Satanic Bible. To him the rituals and other such obvious markers of identification were secondary. Often times, in handing out a physical membership card to one individual or another, he was merely confirming the status they'd achieved via Satanic means...whether said individual recognized them as such or not. Last Edited By: Earl Roesel Dec 1 09 1:12 AM. Edited 2 times.
Jason at Terror Transmission		#72	[-]
Dec 1 09 12:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Earl hit the proverbial nail on the head with his astute reply. Let that close the coffin on "certain" myopically incredulous scoffers. I have not had the pleasure of perusing the article in Screem Magazine, but I haven't heard any mention of LaVey's involvement in one of my favorite train wrecks of the 70's, Asylum of Satan, or his provocative quote that introduced the high-octane and tons o' fun The Car. For anyone who is interested, Terrortransmission.com devoted the first two episodes of their (wonderful!) podcast program to Rosemary's Baby, and indeed covered the LaVey angle, as well as several other fun-filled diabolic factoids. Check it out!
Southern Beau		#73	[-]
Dec 2 09 3:56 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Right. As always, LaVey was a con. A self prompter. He would give anyone membership to further himself even if they were not aware of it (or apart of it). And he wasn't in ROSEMARY'S BABY. I looked that one up.
Jason at Terror Transmission		#74	[-]
Dec 2 09 4:19 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sounds like S.B. must have his own "issues" with LaVey. His arguments are entirely baseless and tunneled with a vindictive and haughty air, and work to make him sound exceptionally petty and spiteful. And, YES, LaVey WAS in Rosemary's Baby. Polanski himself has said as much in interviews.
Southern Beau		#75	[-]
Dec 2 09 4:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I would have been gracious to Mr. LaVey had I met him. I do have an issue with those who fabricate. If there was proof of his appearance in the movie, I'd then say yes. And I wouldn't have any problem sharing that information. As of yet, I can't find it. Did meet Forrest Ackerman many years ago. Very kind fellow who didn't believe in any of this stuff. Just a way to make money. And that's fine too. Besides, it was Ackerman who said LaVey didn't believe in any of it. Believe, however, what you wish. No harm meant to you.
Earl Roesel.scarletstreet		#76	[-]
Dec 2 09 8:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Perhaps LaVey derived the most satisfaction from seeing successful people applying the philosophies he espoused in the real world, thus his recognition of them. Remember, so far as the media was concerned, ASL virtually dropped out of sight after the mid-70s. Yes, there were some publicity-garnering activities prior to that (talk show appearances, filmed Satanic weddings, etc.) but this was relatively short-lived. The Church of Satan from 1975 onward assumed a much more covert face, so much so that some question its current existence. Besides, it was Ackerman who said LaVey didn't believe in any of it. The sense I always got from Forry, and I discussed these subjects with him many times, was that ASL was such a nice man you'd never know he was a Satanist. Though Satanism may not have been his "thing", he never called LaVey (or Hubbard) a fraud.
Jason at Terror Transmission		#77	[-]
Dec 2 09 9:22 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The philosophy of LaVey (what he termed "Satanism") is simply about belief in yourself. Their is no deist gobbledygook espoused in the philosophy, just a life affirming will to power and the pursuit of happiness and fulfillment in this world. To say that LaVey did not believe in "any of this stuff" is silly, not to mention ignorant of what the man was all about. LaVey did recognize those in the outside world who used what he deemed "Satanic" means to garner their ends. He called those people "de-facto" Satanists. He did not prance around Hollywood throwing honorary memberships to anyone who he thought would help his ends. He bestowed honorary memberships upon those who ALREADY recognized their own diabolic inclinations, and LaVey meant these meritorious honors as a sign of respect. By the way, the CoS membership roster has ALWAYS been top secret. Only those members who wished to divulge their own involvement to the general public were disclosed to ANY media outlets. Don't you think that (especially in the US) anyone who found themselves erroneously touted about as a member of the CoS would have sued the organizations pants off (and gotten some great free press because of it)? I would hesitate to pass half-baked judgements on ANY topic until its depths have been delved into. And the last thing I would do would be to put words into the mouths of those long dead to meet my own trivial ends. I (and every other (well researched) person posting) have tried, but I guess that old hackneyed term is ineluctable after all. You just can't smarten up a chump! Believe me, no harm DONE to me!!!!
Robert Andrew		#78	[-]
Dec 2 09 10:19 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A con? A Self promoter? Seems as though Screem Magazine and that one eared wonder, who shall remain nameless here forever more, aren't the only ones with an agenda. Dr. LaVey also had a hand in the film The Brotherhood of Satan, although it was, by his own admission, not a very large one. Speaking of Forry, he was most certainly one of the greatest de-factos of recent memory. There's also a great pic of the Doktor, Forry, and Kenneth Anger in The Secret Life of a Satanist if anyone's interested.
Joe Karlosi		#79	[-]
Dec 3 09 6:44 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ackerman was a devout atheist. The look on his face must have been priceless when he came face to face with God recently. Last Edited By: Joe Karlosi Dec 3 09 6:47 AM. Edited 1 times.
Omega Man		#80	[-]
Dec 3 09 9:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's okay... According to the religious tradition I was raised in (Southern Protestant), Catholics will have that same "priceless look" -- and ultimately be consigned to the same fiery place -- as Forry and the Atheists. "Dammit, it's jammed!" www.eccentric-cinema.com
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