THE BIRDS in '60s Horror and Sci-Fi Forum

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Robert Summit	THE BIRDS	Lead	[-]
Oct 31 05 10:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	May have been discussed before....pleas redirect me. I had a thought while watching this last night. Do you think the birds are "caging in" everybody in the town in revenge for Tippi's bringing the caged loved birds over? I've never heard this possibility discussed before.
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blackbiped	Re: THE BIRDS	#1	[-]
Oct 31 05 11:37 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've heard people over the years say that it all might've had something to do with the lovebirds, but it's such a widespread occurrence, with a lot of other cities eventually being plagued by attacking birds, that I'm not to sure about it. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
catmandu7	Re: THE BIRDS	#2	[-]
Nov 1 05 9:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I will always remember the scene where the heroes go into the house, and the shot where the Ladies eyes have been plucked out. Chills running up my 12 year old spine.
TomWeaver999	Re: THE BIRDS	#3	[-]
Nov 1 05 9:05 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As a kid growing up, I alllllways felt that the whole "bird revolt" was connected to Tippi and the lovebirds. And there's a diner scene -- the hysterical woman (played, if I'm remembering right, by Mrs. Arthur Franz) charging Tippi with starting the whole mess -- that reinforces that.
gbbooks	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#4	[-]
Nov 2 05 12:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A couple of years ago, I watched The Birds with my then 12 year old son, who was seeing the film for the first time. After the movie, he brought up the notion the arrival of the lovebirds somehow related to the ensuing general bird attack. I had never thought about the story in that way, so we went online, searching for any like discussion and came across at least one reminiscence similar to Tom's above comment. I think, this is a connection a younger person might be more likely to make than an adult, but I'm not saying this to discount, in any way, the idea of such a connection. I just find it interesting along the lines of differences in perception.
blackbiped	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#5	[-]
Nov 2 05 4:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Surely there were other birds being kept in cages in Bodega Bay. And the Tides restaurant probably served fried chicken for years. I can't see why Tippi Hedren showing up with a couple of lovebirds in a cage would suddenly start a widespread bird revolt. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
TomWeaver999	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#6	[-]
Nov 2 05 9:26 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But I think Hitchcock/the screenwriter/whoEVER wants us to think that -- otherwise, why is there the scene of the diner lady telling Tippi Hedren that everything that's happening is her (Tippi's) fault?
Bill Warren	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#7	[-]
Nov 2 05 2:50 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* But I think Hitchcock/the screenwriter/whoEVER wants us to think that -- otherwise, why is there the scene of the diner lady telling Tippi Hedren that everything that's happening is her (Tippi's) fault? Why do you think that she was right? I think Hitchcock wanted to suggest the possibility that Hedren and the lovebirds might have something to do with the bird attacks, while at the same time wanting not to indicate that the theory was true. He got a laugh out of shots of the lovebirds in the cage as Hedren drove to Bodega Bay: they sway as she rounds curves in the road. All evidence that I've encountered indicates that Hitchcock did not want there to be any hard-and-fast answer to why the birds are attacking people. According to the biography by McGilligan (the best biography of Hitchcock that I've read), Hitch kept insisting that he did not want THE BIRDS to be regarded as science fiction. (Tough luck, Hitch.) I presume that one of the ways he attempted to evade that categorization was in not offering a definitive answer to why the birds are attacking.
TomWeaver999	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#8	[-]
Nov 2 05 3:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<< Why do you think that she was right? << Why do you think I think she's right? It's just a feeling you can pick up from the movie (that Tippi buying the lovebirds has maybe ticked-off Mother Nature), and, in case you missed those vibes, the accusatory lady comes right out and says it.
Bill Warren	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#9	[-]
Nov 2 05 3:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It never crossed my mind that the hysterical woman was the voice of reason. In fact, I thought that because the accusation came from someone so shrill and out of control we were intended to disregard what she said. I'm fairly sure that Hitchcock was going for ambiguity here. Maybe as a reaction to being so UNambiguous with PSYCHO? Just a passing thought.
blackbiped	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#10	[-]
Nov 2 05 6:12 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* It never crossed my mind that the hysterical woman was the voice of reason. In fact, I thought that because the accusation came from someone so shrill and out of control we were intended to disregard what she said. That's the impression I always got from the scene. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
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TomWeaver999	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#11	[-]
Nov 2 05 6:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, the hysterical woman COULD be in there to let the audience know, "Disregard your sense that Tippi's actions started all this trouble." Or she could be in there to let the audience know, "Hey, in case you didn't notice, there WASN'T any trouble before Tippi started messin' around." It's at least an acknowledgment on the moviemakers' part that, intentionally or not, some audience members would get the impression that Tippi and the lovebirds were the start of all this. Whether the hysterical woman was meant to be their reinforcement or their rejection of that idea ... I guess we'll never know.
Tim Lucas VW	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#12	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:07 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I see the movie as allegory rather than science fiction. I've always seen the birds as emblematic of Melanie's "flighty" emotional state and the gravity of her feelings for Mitch as a threat to "cage" her. This is grossly simplifying something that the film states more poetically, but at the end, when Melanie goes into shock and mustn't be rattled, her emotional condition is paralleled in all the angry birds which have come to settle. I'm overdue for watching the movie again, but it seems to me that the birds are forever acting out her emotions -- attacking her rival, Mitch's home and the solid family there which is unlike any she's known, and finally herself. In this way, I think the movie dovetails (pun intended) with MARNIE, which also posits Hedren in the role of a character whose formidable defenses and psychoses must be worked through by a man determined to reach and love the woman behind them.
blackbiped	Re: THE BIRDS - Lovebird arrival leading to attack	#13	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's interesting -- it reminds me of Danny Peary's contention that King Kong is a manifestation of Carl Denham's id, like the monster in FORBIDDEN PLANET. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
Bill Warren	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#14	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* I see the movie as allegory rather than science fiction. It could, of course, be both, since an allegory can be any form of drama. Your points are well taken, and I haven't seen that idea clearly explicated before. I assume Hitchcock wanted to do a story about animals attacking humans (he optioned Fredric Brown's novel THE MIND THING, which has similarities to THE BIRDS--and to THE BEAST WITH A MILLION EYES, for that matter), and chose to enlarge on the De Maupassant story. I don't think he had the character of Melanie Daniels in mind, then looked for a story to use as an allegory for her character. If I recall correctly, there is no equivalent character in the short story. Hitchcock was inclined to blandly explain to perplexed actors "it's only a movie." But that was to get them to focus on the task at hand without worrying too much about motivation, apparent lack of logic, etc. Hitchcock almost always played his cards very close to his vest; he didn't admit to allegorical details, bridled when asked "what's it REALLY about?" and adopted the stance of entertainer and only entertainer. But he was so skilled an entertainer that he can be written about endlessly--and there ARE other things going on his movies, generating even more commentary. I think it's safe to estimate that more has been written about Hitchcock than about any other director, except maybe Chaplin--and he did more than direct.
Tim Lucas VW	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#15	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* the De Maupassant story Daphne Du Maurier -- whom I believe was inspired to write her story after hearing the expression "a murder of birds."
TomWeaver999	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#16	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<< the De Maupassant story Daphne Du Maurier << Dudleigh Du Wright.
Bill Warren	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#17	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Daphne Du Maurier -- whom I believe was inspired to write her story after hearing the ex-pression "a murder of birds." Ah, yes, of course. Color me blushing. Oddly, it seems that Hitchcock adapted more fiction by Du Maurier than any other writer. There was a TV adaptation of the story when I was in early high school, but I wasn't able to see it. And there was an earlier one in 1950. The IMDb doesn't seem to list the one I wanted to see, which may have been on General Electric Theater.
Jojo Lapin X	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#18	[-]
Nov 2 05 7:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	THE BIRDS is based on a story by Daphne du Maurier (not de Maupassant) which I have not read, but I am familiar with some of her other works in this vein---the most famous of which is "Don't Look Now." I do not think she would have intended a straightforward narrative that should be taken literally. Instead she is constructing a nightmare world where nightmare logic rules and where psychological states can cause physical events in and of themselves. There is no point in looking for a rational explanation; if it was more rational it would be less disturbing. In layman's terms: Tim Lucas comes closest.
oldmanster	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#19	[-]
Nov 2 05 8:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Without extending the allegory comments -- I have no idea if Du Maurier intended that -- I remember that the story featured a general "revolt of the birds" -- my quotes, not the authors -- and was regarded as fantasy rather than science fiction back in the olden days of the late 50s when I read it. It was originally published in 1952 in a collection called The Apple Tree Does it help to know that Du Maurier and Hitchcock had already teamed up for a film version of her story/novel Rebecca? I dunno. Much more erudite folks than I have cited the fact that Hitch didn't use her story ("The Birds") as it was written, just a general "treatment" based on the story. What Du Maurier wrote and what Hitch brought to film could be viewed as different sub-genres, I suppose. ... Reed
Doctor 1313	Re: THE BIRDS as allegory?	#20	[-]
Nov 3 05 9:26 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* I'm overdue for watching the movie again, but it seems to me that the birds are forever acting out her emotions -- attacking her rival, Mitch's home and the solid family there which is unlike any she's known, and finally herself. I agree with you, Tim, except that I've always sort of thought the birds were acting out what would be the repressed feelings of Mitch's mother, who wants Melanie to stay away from her son. The first bird attacks Melanie when her boat approaches Mitch on the pier. The seagull hits Annie's front door when she and Melanie are talking about Lydia. When Lydia sees Mitch and Melanie together at the birthday party, the birds attack again, and finally, when Melanie is in shock and no longer a threat, the birds surrounding the house are complacent. DOCTOR 13
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