ROCKETSHIP X-M in '50s Horror and Sci-Fi Forum

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ROCKETSHIP X-M

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.		#21	[-]
Sep 2 11 10:09 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hmm, it was tinted on the WW DVD - looked like it was pulled from VHS too, and spliced into the original film print.
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bob7708.themousepad		#22	[-]
Sep 2 11 11:43 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	todmichel. where can I get this copy of RXM and how much does it cost? So it looks like the original and is red tinted as well? Great, and thanks for finding it!!! Last Edited By: bob7708 Sep 3 11 2:19 PM. Edited 1 times.
todmichel		#23	[-]
Sep 2 11 12:36 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	bob7708 wrote: todmichel. where can I get this copy of RXM and how much does it cost? So it looks like the origional and is red tinted as well? Great, and thanks for finding it!!! You can order directly from the releasing company, this is the link: http://www.artusfilms.com/coffret-destination-mars (There is no problem in writing them in English). But incidentally, do you think that the two shots of the missile are from the original film? I thought they were some of the fx later added by Wade Williams. Am I wrong?
Bill Warren		#24	[-]
Sep 2 11 2:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	todmichel wrote: But incidentally, do you think that the two shots of the missile are from the original film? I thought they were some of the fx later added by Wade Williams. Am I wrong? I thought there were no shots of RXM in flight in the original movie.
bipolarber		#25	[-]
Sep 2 11 2:19 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But incidentally, do you think that the two shots of the missile are from the original film? I thought they were some of the fx later added by Wade Williams. Am I wrong? That was my impression too. I know for certain that the shot of the RXM "coasting" after the engines have gone wrong is a new one, as are the shots of the ship decending to the Martian surface. (Those replaced some recycled stock footage of German V2's) "[The audiance] will populate the darkness with more horrors than all the horror writers in Hollywood could think of. If you make the screen dark enough, the mind's eye will read anything into it you want! We're great ones for the dark patches." -VAL LEWTON
bob7708.themousepad		#26	[-]
Sep 2 11 6:53 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	todmichel: "But incidentally, do you think that the two shots of the missile are from the original film? I thought they were some of the fx later added by Wade Williams. Am I wrong?" I have a VHS tape of the origional (Pre- Wade Williams) and just got through watching it and those shots of the RXM taking off from Mars are from the original version. Last Edited By: bob7708 Sep 3 11 2:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
TServo4		#27	[-]
Sep 3 11 1:00 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Indeed the original prints had the Mars scenes printed on Kodak red-tinted stock (and physically spliced into the print or entire reels). This was also the case with LOST CONTINENT, which had the scenes on the plateau printed on green-tinted stock (the same color as some of the Uni-horrors). The color when projected on screen is even deeper and saturated than you see on the DVD. J. Theakston Capitol Theatre, Rome, NY
.		#28	[-]
Sep 3 11 9:17 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	bob7708 wrote: todmichel: "But incidentally, do you think that the two shots of the missile are from the original film? I thought they were some of the fx later added by Wade Williams. Am I wrong?" I have a VHS tape of the origional (Pre- Wade Williams) and just got through watching it and those shots of the RXM taking off from Mars are from the origional version. Oh, I heard they were new footage. Confusing! This post on IMDB says otherwise: http://www.imdb.com/title...9042160&p=1#69042160 Okay, here's the complete rundown on RXM's so-called "enhanced" special effects. There are three versions of this film: First, the original, no-frills fx version released in 1950 (which included the sepia/red tinted Martian sequences restored in homevid versions after the film had only been shown in b&w in TV prints from the late 50s to the early 80s). Second, the full-scale enhanced special effects version Wade Williams shot in the late '70s, first released on the Nostalgia Merchant VHS version in the '80s (later also on some DVD releases). This included new footage Williams had filmed and substituted (yes, substituted, not simply added) for scenes in the original picture. In each case, the soundtrack remains unaltered but new footage has been substituted for the original shots. This new footage consisted of the following: (1) Stock shots of a nighttime launch of a real rocket (which appear to have originally been in color) were substituted for the stock shots of a V-2 launch. (2) When the crew re-starts the engines in mid-flight there were new shots of Williams's model of the RXM with its engine firing inserted in place of scenes of the interior of the ship. (3) Several shots of the Williams model of the ship descending toward and landing on Mars were inserted in place of either stock shots of the V-2 (run in reverse) or interior shots of the rocket. (4) Williams shot new scenes with his rocket model and doubles for the actors for both the initial and final scenes on Mars, substituted for the originals. The shot of the rocket escaping Mars was also substituted for yet another shot of the V-2 footage. Finally, the third version, released on DVD, has fortunately discarded many of these so-called "enhanced" sfx and restored much, but not all, of the original footage. The only remaining Williams-induced effects are the shots substituted for the V-2 footage. The Martian footage has been restored (no doubles or new rocketship), same with the engine re-start sequence in space. Unfortunately Wade Williams, though he obtains good original source prints for films he has collected, also has a propensity for screwing around with some of them (as he also did with KILLERS FROM SPACE and CARNIVAL OF SOULS), changing or adding things to make them look what he thinks is "better". Several years ago I spoke with one of the executives at Englewood Entertainment, which was releasing the films in the "Wade Williams Collection", and asked whether they'd ever release the real, unadulterated version of "RXM". This man told me he didn't know and that this was (as I knew) Williams's favorite film, so they hesitated to ask him to restore a movie he'd tampered with. It seems to me that if Wade Williams really loved this movie as much as he claims he'd put it out in its original form, no new (and less enjoyable) special effects, phony old V-2 footage and all. The original film, flaws and all, is always better than anything some latter-day "fixer" remaking it to his ideas could come up with. Perhaps if enough people make their feelings known he'd do the right thing and release the perfectly imperfect, original ROCKETSHIP X-M. Wade, our friend, are you listening?
bob7708.themousepad		#29	[-]
Sep 3 11 10:38 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi GoughForever.scarletstreet... Replying to your comments directly above. 1.) Now that you mentioned it, I believe your right about the origional RXM footage as having a V-2 rocket taking off from Mars. I do vaguely remember it in the origional RXM and am conceding it. I now think your right about it and that as I was mistaken. 2.) I have e-mailed Wade Williams on several occasions pleading with him to restore the origional and he said that he sold the 35mm film to another dealer and that the 16mm print he had was damaged through age. At least the tinted portion was. I believe he said that the red tint on his 16mm had turned to another color but he would consider printing (using stock red tinted film) over it. Last time I emailed, it sounded like he decided to drop the whole project. So were out of luck there. I did bring up to him that it would be a great idea to release a DVD of RXM with the origional on one side and his version of RXM on the other side but he never responded to that suggestion at all. I heard that he also messed up the origional version of Flight To Mars. What are these idiots thinking of that they take an origional print and destroy it, ruining it for others to enjoy. Does he think the he's the only one who's feeling matter when wanting to view these origional prints again after generations have past? It's either a case of massive ego or masive stupidity. I have no idea which one it is but it seems that Hollywood and other studios have finally taken action to protect their property against people like Wade through the Copywright laws. These origionals belong to history and should NEVER be permitted to be altered by anyone. Last Edited By: bob7708 Sep 3 11 10:42 AM. Edited 1 times.
todmichel		#30	[-]
Sep 3 11 12:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Quote: Does he think the he's the only one who's feeling matter when wanting to view these origional prints again after generations have past? It's either a case of massive ego or masive stupidity. I have no idea which one it is but it seems that Hollywood and other studios have finally taken action to protect their property against people like Wade through the Copywright laws. These origionals belong to history and should NEVER be permitted to be altered by anyone. And these alterations include, of course, colorization!
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TomWeaver999		#31	[-]
Sep 3 11 12:31 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wellllll, I'm glad they altered them (by adding commercials and doing a bit of censoring where need be) in order to put them on television in the '60s and '70s, 'cause otherwise I'd have never heard of ANY of these movies! I'm also glad that some of my favorite foreign films were altered (the addition of dubbed voices or subtitles) or I wouldn't know what the heck was going on, when I saw them on TV (altered with commercials).
bob7708.themousepad		#32	[-]
Sep 3 11 2:08 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	TomWeaver999 wrote: Wellllll, I'm glad they altered them (by adding commercials and doing a bit of censoring where need be) in order to put them on television in the '60s and '70s, 'cause otherwise I'd have never heard of ANY of these movies! I'm also glad that some of my favorite foreign films were altered (the addition of dubbed voices or subtitles) or I wouldn't know what the heck was going on, when I saw them on TV (altered with commercials). I suppose it's O.K. to alter them for family viewing on T.V. as long as you leave copies of the originals on the market for others to see. There are a lot of us out there that can handle the originals no matter what their content is. You say that you were glad that some of your favorite foreign films were altered making them more understandable to you and that's O.K. with me as long as you just leave copies of the originals films! Just leave copies of the originals! Please! Last Edited By: bob7708 Sep 3 11 2:29 PM. Edited 3 times.
BijouBob8mm		#33	[-]
Sep 3 11 3:56 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks for taking the time to post that listing of variations between the three versions of RXM. Unfortunately Wade Williams, though he obtains good original source prints for films he has collected, also has a propensity for screwing around with some of them (as he also did with KILLERS FROM SPACE and CARNIVAL OF SOULS) Didn't realize he'd tampered with those two titles; what changes were made? I heard that he also messed up the origional version of Flight To Mars. I seem to recall the VHS release of FLIGHT TO MARS used a much better print than its later DVD counterpart, even though both were from the Wade Williams/Corinth collection! (In spite of that, the splice-ridden DVD came out at a higher-price than most of the other Wade Williams Image releases...I guess because of that two-part interview with Cameron Mitchell included as a bonus feature?) This man told me he didn't know and that this was (as I knew) Williams's favorite film, so they hesitated to ask him to restore a movie he'd tampered with. It seems odd, if the film is his favorite movie, that he would mess with it...unless he thought "jazzing it up" would help it find a more appreciative audience in these more modern times. (Basically, the mindset behind colorizing movies.) I remember, during the early days of Starlog, the magazine ran a piece on Wade Williams having picked up the rights to RXM and how he had even tracked down the trailer, giving him just about every scrap of footage for the film. His enthusiasm for the movie really came across. Man, there were so many titles like that that I first learned about in those first few years of Starlog...there was something magical about the magazine back then, because there wasn't the saturation of information we now have available to us, and each issue was anticipated treasure. (Not that I'm complaining about the instant access of DVD and the Internet, but the obscurity back then added a mystique to the material. Wasn't easy to see Puppetoons, Max Fleischer's Superman, or a lot of the Fifties Sci-Fi that now appears under the Wade Williams/Image banner. And FORBIDDEN PLANET in widescreen? Fuggetaboutit!)
TomWeaver999		#34	[-]
Sep 3 11 4:14 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just playing devil's advocate here, because I get along with everybody and want to keep it that way ... but ... For a loooooong time there's been annoyance directed at Wade Williams for having some talented fans come in and shoot some new RXM footage and FX and making his own version that was BRIEFLY released (and is now highly sought after and costs a pretty penny, IF you can find a copy). Ummmmm ....... where's the annoyance/contempt/whatever for the fans who did the work? That's nnnnnnever part of the conversation. Should it be? Should it not be? Hey, I like everybody involved, and it's nice that they did what they did for that briefly released version. But why the double standard? What about the FX guys' "massive egos and stupidity"? Or is that one of those things that You're Not Supposed to Say?
bipolarber		#35	[-]
Sep 3 11 4:56 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	At least he didn't decide to "colorize" it when that awful process was in vouge... "[The audiance] will populate the darkness with more horrors than all the horror writers in Hollywood could think of. If you make the screen dark enough, the mind's eye will read anything into it you want! We're great ones for the dark patches." -VAL LEWTON
bob7708.themousepad		#36	[-]
Sep 3 11 6:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	TomWeaver999 wrote: Just playing devil's advocate here, because I get along with everybody and want to keep it that way ... but ... For a loooooong time there's been annoyance directed at Wade Williams for having some talented fans come in and shoot some new RXM footage and FX and making his own version that was BRIEFLY released (and is now highly sought after and costs a pretty penny, IF you can find a copy). Ummmmm ....... where's the annoyance/contempt/whatever for the fans who did the work? That's nnnnnnever part of the conversation. Should it be? Should it not be? Hey, I like everybody involved, and it's nice that they did what they did for that briefly released version. But why the double standard? What about the FX guys' "massive egos and stupidity"? Or is that one of those things that You're Not Supposed to Say? You make an interesting point Tom and I personally never had a problem with Wade for making his own updated version of RXM with the sepia tint to bring the Martian color and landscape up to the current understanding of what Mars is really like. I just wish Wade would have printed and released the origional version along with his version. I am confused with all these versions of RXM that is out there. I had no idea there were so many versions of it. My only request of these people who want to re-release old films back into the population is this, if they are going to upgrade the film to their own standards then they should also make the the original available to the public. These old films are works of art, no matter how badly they were made, and the original prints or films should always be preserved and released to the public. I just don't see what the big problem is with doing it this way. Last Edited By: bob7708 Sep 3 11 11:26 PM. Edited 1 times.
TomWeaver999		#37	[-]
Sep 3 11 11:59 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	New episodes of MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER came out every week (or whatever) for years, and (except for some people grumbling that they weren't funny) nobody seemed upset about this steady stream of completely altered movies; in fact, a lot of fans embraced 'em. Meanwhile the "enhanced" version of RXM which was out on home video for about 12 minutes, 30 years ago (and you'd have to search for a month to find a copy nowadays), is still being angrily talked about like it was a crime against humanity. Fandumb -- eeeeek!
TomWeaver999		#38	[-]
Sep 4 11 12:29 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>>These old films are works of art, no matter how badly they were made, and the original prints or films should always be preserved and released to the public. I just don't see what the big problem is with doing it this way.<< The fact that there are probably about a half-million movies and shorts by now, and 480,000 of them wouldn't sell more than a dozen copies on DVD, could present a problem.
Crow T Robot		#39	[-]
Sep 4 11 12:38 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I really have no problem with people tweaking these films as long as the originals are still available. Sadly George Lucas continues to tweak his Star wars films, but keeps the original out of the hands of the fans now days. I for one love the original versions of those films, and long for them to be available on DVD. yeah, I know, he released them as a "bonus" a few years ago, but they were not anamorphic widescreen. Cinemagic magazine # 1 (from Starlog) had a great article on the making of the new effects shots. If I remember it correctly, the reason they did those new effects shots was because they loved the film and wanted to see what it would be like to "fix" the problems with it (stock shots of actual rocket launches, tin foil meteors, etc). It was pretty much like, "Boy, wouldn't it be cool if..." As to Rocketship X-M. The Special Edition, I saw it when it was released on video from The Nostalgia Merchant many moons ago. I enjoyed it, but still preferred the original. Wish iI had nbought it instead of just renting it. With DVD and now Bluray it would be so easy to have both on the same disc trough seamless branching technology. Well, who knows. Maybe one day. Last Edited By: Crow T Robot Sep 4 11 12:43 AM. Edited 1 times.
todmichel		#40	[-]
Sep 4 11 7:25 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Quote: "I really have no problem with people tweaking these films as long as the originals are still available. " Perhaps, but in too many cases, the originals are no more available (especially for little-known titles, when general audiences aren't even informed about different versions). Try to find a good DVD of the original release version of Laurel & Hardy's PARDON US, for instance. ALL the current editions, excepted one in Spain (!) are the so-called "restored" version, in fact an incoherent editing of a scene from the Spanish version into the American print, destroying all the carefully edited original.
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