The Best and Worst of the Chans? in Murder and Mystery Forum

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The Best and Worst of the Chans?

Author	Comment
SparkieGojira	The Best and Worst of the Chans?	Lead	[-]
Sep 26 08 4:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	For the last several months I've been reaquainting myself with the Fox and Monogram Chan films, Netflixing various films in no particular order. My main concern is that I get what people tend to consider the worst of a particular era out of the way sooner, and save the best for last. So I'd love to take a poll of my fellow Chan fans... what do you consider the best and the worst movies of the Fox Oland and Toler series, the Monogram Toler series, and the Monogram Winters series altough I fear I may never have the chance to see them. -Clark
LesDaniels		#1	[-]
Sep 26 08 9:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm not going to offer many surprises, but my favorite Oland Chan is OPERA, and my favorite Fox Tolers (tie) are TREASURE ISLAND and DEAD MEN TELL. My favorite Monogram Toler is THE SCARLET CLUE, and if I had to pick a Roland Winters film I guess it would be SKY DRAGON, because it finally put an end to the Roland Winters films.
SparkieGojira		#2	[-]
Sep 26 08 11:23 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wow are the Winters films that bad? -Clark
atkalu		#3	[-]
Sep 27 08 9:55 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	TREASURE ISLAND for me is far and away the best, though to be fair, I haven't seen a Winters Chan and a couple of Toler monograms (the ones not in the boxed set). My favorite Oland is LONDON, followed closely by THE BLACK CAMEL.
Livius1		#4	[-]
Sep 27 08 11:38 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	For me, the best of Oland is between OPERA and CHARLIE CHAN'S SECRET - the worst (or the one I had most difficulty getting into) was MONTE CARLO. Toler's best would be either TREASURE ISLAND or WAX MUSEUM - the worst for me was SECRET SERVICE. I haven't seen the later Monogram Toler films or the Winters films for over twenty years and can't remember enough comment. http://livius1.wordpress.com/
LesDaniels		#5	[-]
Sep 28 08 12:08 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>>Wow are the Winters films that bad?<< Opinions may differ, but I find Winters totally unconvincing, and the production values at Monogram did not improve.
Precode		#6	[-]
Sep 28 08 1:23 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My three best (though granted I havn't seen all of them) are OPERA and TREASURE ISLAND, already mentioned, and BROADWAY, which hasn't. Mike S.
Bill Lydig		#7	[-]
Sep 28 08 3:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oland: Favorite: Black Camel & Broadway Least: None, enjoy them all Toler (Fox): Favorite: Dead Men Tell and Castle in the Desert Least: City in Darkness (not bad, just mediocre by Fox standards) Toler (Monogram): Favorite: Scarlet Clue Least: The Trap Winters: Favorite: Docks of New Orleans Least: Sky Dragon My opinion of the Winters Chans is that Docks and Golden Eye were pretty enjoyable flicks while Sky Dragon and Feathered Serpent made Ed Wood look like Hitchcock and the others somewhat in between. The prints I've seen of these last 6 Chans are bad so I'm willing to re-evaluate these when/if Warner commercially releases these.
CAPTAINCOMPANY		#8	[-]
Sep 29 08 1:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey guys! Well, trying to keep this down to a manageable list: Favorites for Oland: The Black Camel (although not necessarily because of Oland) Charlie Chan at the Circus (I'm a sucker for a man-in-a-gorilla suit!) Least Favorites for Oland: Charlie Chan in London (a bit too slowly paced) Charlie Chan in Egypt (perhaps I should have called it "most disappointing" because this could have been much better) Favorite Toler (Fox): Charlie Chan at the Wax Museum (for its horror film trappings) Castle in the Desert (see above) Least Favorite Toler (Fox): Murder Over New York (the New York settting wasn't complimentary) Favoite Toler (Monogram): Meeting at Midnight (spooky backdrop & Mantan Moreland) The Scarlet Clue (enjoyable sci-fi/mystery/serial hybrid plus Mantan Moreland) The Shanghai Cobra (director Phil Karlson of "Kansas City Confidential" fame & Mantan Moreland) Least Favorite Toler (Monogram): Charlie Chan in the Secret Service (I love all of the Monogram Chans, but if I had to pick one, this "foreign intrigue" installment would fill the bill) When it comes to Roland Winters, I have only seen two of his six Chan films. Of those two, I liked "The Shanghai Chest" more than "The Chinese Ring", but Mantan Moreland was the only saving grace in either of them. Bryan
The Batman of Gotham		#9	[-]
Sep 30 08 6:42 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I enjoy CIRCUS ( If you're familar with Hitchcock's SABOTUER, you'll see some familiar faces ) and OLYMPICS ( I love Keye Luke in this one ) and OPERA ( Karloff ) and BLACK CAMEL. TREASURE ISLAND is probably considered one of the best Chan films in the entire series. WAX MUSEUM is fun, DEAD MEN TELL is quite good. - GJS
Lawrence Nepodahl		#10	[-]
Sep 30 08 8:30 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I used to always say OPERA for Oland. But now that I've watched and re-watched all the available W.O. Chans; I'd now have to say- OlLYMPICS. I love the father son relationship and the strange German scenario..."Things like this don't happen in Berlin!" So, now OPERA takes second place. As for Fox/Toler: TREASURE ISLAND. You can't beat the spooky Dr. Zodiac, voiced by the great Gerald Mohr. Followed by WAX MUSEUM. Although CASTLE IN THE DESERT does have Henry Daniell & Douglas Dumbrille in it. As for the Monograms; I like the one with the bizarre jukebox angle- SHANGHAI COBRA. I also like (because the picture pretty much takes place either inside or outside a Malibu house and is soooo boring), Toler's final Chan film- THE TRAP. But, to add, the only reason I really like the Mongram/Toler films is because I just love Mantan Moreland. Politically Correct or not, he's just funny. He and Don Knotts play the best "Frightened" I've ever seen in a comic. As for the Winters films, I'm like many of you; I've never seen one, or if I have, I've forgotten. So, I can't comment.
The Batman of Gotham		#11	[-]
Sep 30 08 9:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm like many of you; I've never seen one, or if I have, I've forgotten. So, I can't comment I saw one Roland Winters Chan movie - I don't remember which one - but, I could not stomach him as Chan. It isn't that he was a particularly bad actor or anything... he just wasn't convincing to me. Oland I can believe. Toler I can believe. Winters.... nah! - GJS
davlghry		#12	[-]
Dec 4 08 12:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	CITY IN DARKNESS is my least favorite of the Tolers but it does have one important distinction. It established Harold Huber as a bumbling Parisian detective with the worst French accent in cinema history a good 25 years before Peter Sellers' Inspector Clouseau. Biggest difference: Sellers was actually funny. Huber is given so much screen time in CITY IN DARKNESS you might have thought Fox was trying him out for a series of Inspector Spivak films with C. Henry Gordon as the prototype for Herbert Lom's Dreyfuss. CITY IN DARKNESS was based on a play which might help explain its misfit as a Chan vehicle.
Resurrection Joe II		#13	[-]
Dec 4 08 3:01 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There's something to enjoy in most any of the Chan films, but my favorites would include THE BLACK CAMEL (with Charlie involved directly in more of the action rather than through surrogates), and CHARLIE CHAN AT THE OPERA (thanks in part to Karloff) among the Oland Chans. Among the Toler Chans, DEAD MEN TELL is a good departure in some ways to the established pattern of the Chan films, due in part to a good, creepy, atmospheric shipboard opening. CASTLE IN THE DESERT with it's horror trappings is a lot of fun. And CHARLIE CHAN IN RIO (basically a remake of THE BLACK CAMEL), has a flavorful music score. THE JADE MASK is a favorite among the Monogram Toler Chans with some good atmosphere, sci-fi elements and a ventriloquist dummy among the ingredients. The Roland Winters Chans that I've seen are certainly not among the better offerings, but he does okay enough, and luckily has Mantan Moreland on hand as he was in most of the Monogram Chans. Last Edited By: Resurrection Joe II Dec 4 08 3:04 PM. Edited 1 times.
Ray Faiola		#14	[-]
Dec 5 08 8:01 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My favorite Oland is CHARLIE CHAN IN EGYPT. My favorite Toler is DEAD MEN TELL. Roland Winters doesn't even count. A fine actor but pitiably miscast as Chan. Classic Film Scores Restored on CD http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
HalLane		#15	[-]
Dec 5 08 8:33 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sorry Sparkie, can't play favorites -- the Chan Canon works as a whole in my view, for intrinsic and/or nostalgic reasons, each a fond memory of a simpler time, and that includes the much maligned Winters of discontent. IN EGYPT, THE TRAP and THE FEATHERED SERPENT catch my eye like beacons in a sea of crime and punishment, but I'd never suggest setting my sights on one over another. You're probably best off maintaining your present course -- full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes, and let your own brain pan sift out the gold.
davlghry		#16	[-]
Dec 8 08 11:10 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	CHARLIE CHAN AT TREASURE ISLAND still holds up as one of the better Chans. But while re-watching it, I couldn't help but wonder if journalists and/or police back in the 60's ever picked up on the movie's connection to the real life Zodiac Killer. AT TREASURE ISLAND is set in San Francisco (same city where the real life killings took place) and features as its villain the mysterious Dr. Zodiac who sends cryptic notes. Has this ever been brought up before? The possibility that the real life Zodiac might have seen and been a "fan" of this film?
tonyrivers		#17	[-]
Dec 8 08 2:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	All of the Oland Chan's are quite good and I agree that "At the Opera" is probably the best of his (although one of the "lost" films he made based on Biggers books might be up there among his best) "Treasure Island" is quite rightly the best of Toler's output, with "Wax Museum", "Dead Men Tell" and "Castle in the Desert" just a notch below that one. As for the Monograms, I enjoyed all of them but if I had to choose Toler's worst one it would be "Dangerous Money." I have seen all of Winter's Chan's and recorded them from a local UHF station many years ago. Winters may not have looked Chinese at all but gave the role a little zest in his performance and I rather liked him in the role no matter how miscast he was. Hard to pick a best or worst among Winters' films. Worst Chan film of them all was the Peter Ustinov one (though I think Ustinov would have made a good Chan given a good script) "Curse of the Dragon Queen.
CAPTAINCOMPANY		#18	[-]
Dec 9 08 1:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey guys! I just watched "Charlie Chan on Broadway" (Oland's penultimate Chan outing), and enjoyed it more than when I previously watched it (which was back in the early 90's) I think its solid supporting ensemble cast, and Keye Luke's "meatier" than average part in this film boosted my appreciation. Bryan
telegonus	Broadway Ain't Bad	#19	[-]
Dec 9 08 11:50 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	On Broadway ain't bad. Good cast. Odd seeing Donald Woods, two years after appearing in a major role in A Tale Of Two Cities, in support in a Chan flick. Major drawback: mediocre ambiance. Not horrible, but for me CC is for the high seas, Honolulu, Shanghai, Egypt, buried treasures, wax museums. Broadway, strange as it sounds, seems a rather prosaic locale for Mr. C.
Red Gargon		#20	[-]
Dec 11 08 9:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'll echo that I've found something to like in almost any Chan movie I've seen, although I haven't seen them all by any stretch. I will say I think I'm out of step with the majority on AT THE OPERA ... I thought Karloff was WAY over the top in this one, one of the least enjoyable performances I've ever seen by him ... including VOODOO ISLAND! I'm usually cool with hammy, but this was just bad hammy, and the goofy harlequin outfit doesn't help things any.

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