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Apr 24 08 4:30 PM
bromstaker wrote: Mongo wrote: TomWeaver999 wrote: << Rosie. << LOL! I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even as a kid watching FRANKENSTEIN, it bugged me that Fritz got heat for stealing an abnormal brain when (in the opening reel) we saw Henry makes an on-camera attempt to steal the brain of the hanged criminal for use in the Monster. Unless that guy was hanged for jaywalking or something, what's the difference? Hi Tom, Of course the guy could have been lynched for something he didn't do. Look at Spencer Tracy in "Fury", he was almost lynched for a murder he didn't commit. Perhaps Henry knew of the man's innocence? However, I wouldn't have blammed Fritz, it's quite likely that he couldn't read. Also, the abnormal brain thing wasn't applicable after the birth of the monster. In it's prior life the brain was insane, probably like Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees, but after being exposed to the most powerful dose of ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy) treatment known at the time, the brain was quited to the extent that it thought violent thoughts as a response to violence directed at it. As we know from the movie, the Monster does not act violently until he is provoked or feels threatened. His act of violence against the little girl, Maria, while horrible, was an act of ignorance, not of intent to harm. In his mind she was a flower, ergo she would also float. The Monster, as portrayed by Karloff, was a pittiable creature. But Mongo remember that after the monster escapes the jail in BoF he kills 3 innocent people - including a young girl. I also think it was during this rampage that he pulled Inspector Krogh's arm off. As far as what happened to the original brain I assume it was burnt in the fire at the end of GoF.
Mongo wrote: TomWeaver999 wrote: << Rosie. << LOL! I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even as a kid watching FRANKENSTEIN, it bugged me that Fritz got heat for stealing an abnormal brain when (in the opening reel) we saw Henry makes an on-camera attempt to steal the brain of the hanged criminal for use in the Monster. Unless that guy was hanged for jaywalking or something, what's the difference? Hi Tom, Of course the guy could have been lynched for something he didn't do. Look at Spencer Tracy in "Fury", he was almost lynched for a murder he didn't commit. Perhaps Henry knew of the man's innocence? However, I wouldn't have blammed Fritz, it's quite likely that he couldn't read. Also, the abnormal brain thing wasn't applicable after the birth of the monster. In it's prior life the brain was insane, probably like Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees, but after being exposed to the most powerful dose of ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy) treatment known at the time, the brain was quited to the extent that it thought violent thoughts as a response to violence directed at it. As we know from the movie, the Monster does not act violently until he is provoked or feels threatened. His act of violence against the little girl, Maria, while horrible, was an act of ignorance, not of intent to harm. In his mind she was a flower, ergo she would also float. The Monster, as portrayed by Karloff, was a pittiable creature.
TomWeaver999 wrote: << Rosie. << LOL! I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even as a kid watching FRANKENSTEIN, it bugged me that Fritz got heat for stealing an abnormal brain when (in the opening reel) we saw Henry makes an on-camera attempt to steal the brain of the hanged criminal for use in the Monster. Unless that guy was hanged for jaywalking or something, what's the difference?
Hi Tom,
But Mongo remember that after the monster escapes the jail in BoF he kills 3 innocent people - including a young girl. I also think it was during this rampage that he pulled Inspector Krogh's arm off. As far as what happened to the original brain I assume it was burnt in the fire at the end of GoF.
Yes, I remember that after he escaped jail 3 innocent people were killed, but I think they were killed off camera. It was never revealed how they were killed. It is quite possible that there could have been another murderer that took advantage of the monster's reputation to do some killing of his own. It just seems unlikely, to me , that after rescuing a shepherdess from drowning and attempting to revive her, he would have gone off on a killing spree. As far as Inspector Krogh is concerned, while the killing of his father and pulling off of his arm were horrible to be sure, the passage of time does have a tendency to dull one's memory, even if the person claims it was "the most vivid recollection of his life". It could be possible that the Monster flung open the door to their home much like he did the blind Hermit's home. Krogh's father reacted much like anyone would react towards an unwanted intruder, he grabbed a gun and shot at the Monster. The Monster defended himself and sent Krogh's father crashing against a wall. Then Krogh, a child, attacked the monster beating him with his hands. The monster grabbed an arm to push him away and the Monster, not realizing his own strength, yanked out Krogh's arm. I don't believe that the Karloff Monster was the savage murderer that everyone makes him out to be. He did not become a truly evil creature until Igor's brain was transplanted into his body.
Apr 24 08 5:58 PM
Apr 24 08 6:52 PM
Apr 25 08 8:18 AM
It's been suggested that when the editing was done to FMTW, it was as if Ghost had not occurred at all, the continuity was lost in the series. Assuming there was meant to be continuity, despite the editing .... It wasn't common knowledge that the Monster had a brain transplant. I don't believe that Eric or Elsa would have told anyone. They were the only survivors from Ghost who knew this. When the Monster appeared in the village in FMTW, there was no reference to it having Ygor's brain by the villagers et al.So, if Neiman had discovered the original brain in the ruins, he would have paid it no heed. His plan was to replace the Monster's brain with one of his enemies. And there's nothing in House that shows he found the original brain and transplanted it. Indeed, Neimann commented he had yet to find a way to combine Frankenstein's techniques with his own. Frankenstein's ghost asked Ludwig what if it had another brain. He didn't say a transplant wouldn't have worked. After Ghost, it was a few years before FMTW. (In the shooting script, the Monster said he was encased in the ice for years). Then, in House, the police said it was several years ago that the dam broke re the climax of FMTW. Thus, it may have been as long as ten years between Ghost and House. When Ludwig and Bohmer did their operations, they timed it so there was no prolonged intervening period between the removal from the Monster of the original brain and replacement with Ygor's brain. The removals were done simulataneously. I can't see taking a brain that had been removed from the Monster's body ten years earlier being put back in and all would be as before. Still, the body and brain had been endowed with life from the cosmic rays. Even in Frankenstein and Bride, Henry commented on the organs being fresh, such as the heart for the Bride. It's interesting to speculate on all of this, though.
Apr 25 08 10:37 AM
Apr 25 08 10:45 AM
Apr 25 08 11:01 AM
Bohmer brought in Ygor's brain intact to Dr. Frankenstein. Frankentein intended the Monster to have the brain of Dr. Kettering, a man of reason and knowledge, and retain that character and intellect. The transplant didn't intend for the personality to undergo submersion. After the transplant, the Monster did have Ygor's brain and personality, and as scripted and filmed in the sequel, did retain that. Then the editing was done to make the Monster appear as if the transplant had never happened, no dialogue or reference to Ygor or reference to the Monster's blindness. However, one thought is that the combined trauma of the transplant, the beams falling on top of the Monster, the fire in the lab, falling into an ice cavern, and being frozen in ice for years had an adverse effect on the thought and reasoning processes by the time Chaney found the Monster in FMTW, the final version.
Apr 25 08 11:07 AM
Bobtheman wrote: Bohmer brought in Ygor's brain intact to Dr. Frankenstein.
Bohmer brought in Ygor's brain intact to Dr. Frankenstein.
Yes, but we didn't see what he did with it after delivery, did we?
Apr 25 08 11:25 AM
Apr 27 08 3:17 PM
Bobtheman wrote: It's been suggested that when the editing was done to FMTW, it was as if Ghost had not occurred at all, the continuity was lost in the series. Assuming there was meant to be continuity, despite the editing .... It wasn't common knowledge that the Monster had a brain transplant. I don't believe that Eric or Elsa would have told anyone. They were the only survivors from Ghost who knew this. Ludwig was a Scientist. All Scientists keep notes of their experiments. Ludwig also had access to his father's journal "The Secrets of Life and Death" it is not hard to imagine that he would have made notes of the monster's brain transplant in his father's jounal. When the Monster appeared in the village in FMTW, there was no reference to it having Ygor's brain by the villagers et al.So, if Neiman had discovered the original brain in the ruins, he would have paid it no heed. His plan was to replace the Monster's brain with one of his enemies. And there's nothing in House that shows he found the original brain and transplanted it. Indeed, Neimann commented he had yet to find a way to combine Frankenstein's techniques with his own. Talbot gave Frankenstein's journal to Neimann. So, if Ludwig's brain transplant experiment was written in the journal Neimann would surely have read it. Therefore, if he had discovered the original brain he would have known what it was because Ludwig, being the scientist he was, would have labeled it as the Monster's Brain. (Hey that would have been a great title for a sequel). If Igor's brain had deteriorated to a point where it would be useless, or threaten the health of the monster, Neimann could have made the decision to practice with the original Brain and have made that comment about technique to Talbot just to stall him and get him off his back. There are a lot of things in these movies that are either hinted at or not explained at all, so just because it does not show that he found the original brain does not mean that he did not. Frankenstein's ghost asked Ludwig what if it had another brain. He didn't say a transplant wouldn't have worked. Of course we know it was just Ludwig talking to himself, not the real ghost of Frankenstein. After Ghost, it was a few years before FMTW. (In the shooting script, the Monster said he was encased in the ice for years). Then, in House, the police said it was several years ago that the dam broke re the climax of FMTW. Thus, it may have been as long as ten years between Ghost and House. When Ludwig and Bohmer did their operations, they timed it so there was no prolonged intervening period between the removal from the Monster of the original brain and replacement with Ygor's brain. The removals were done simulataneously. I can't see taking a brain that had been removed from the Monster's body ten years earlier being put back in and all would be as before. Still, the body and brain had been endowed with life from the cosmic rays. And once endowed with life from the cosmic rays they lived eternally. Even in Frankenstein and Bride, Henry commented on the organs being fresh, such as the heart for the Bride. It's interesting to speculate on all of this, though.
It's been suggested that when the editing was done to FMTW, it was as if Ghost had not occurred at all, the continuity was lost in the series. Assuming there was meant to be continuity, despite the editing .... It wasn't common knowledge that the Monster had a brain transplant. I don't believe that Eric or Elsa would have told anyone. They were the only survivors from Ghost who knew this.
Ludwig was a Scientist. All Scientists keep notes of their experiments. Ludwig also had access to his father's journal "The Secrets of Life and Death" it is not hard to imagine that he would have made notes of the monster's brain transplant in his father's jounal.
When the Monster appeared in the village in FMTW, there was no reference to it having Ygor's brain by the villagers et al.So, if Neiman had discovered the original brain in the ruins, he would have paid it no heed. His plan was to replace the Monster's brain with one of his enemies. And there's nothing in House that shows he found the original brain and transplanted it. Indeed, Neimann commented he had yet to find a way to combine Frankenstein's techniques with his own.
Talbot gave Frankenstein's journal to Neimann. So, if Ludwig's brain transplant experiment was written in the journal Neimann would surely have read it. Therefore, if he had discovered the original brain he would have known what it was because Ludwig, being the scientist he was, would have labeled it as the Monster's Brain. (Hey that would have been a great title for a sequel). If Igor's brain had deteriorated to a point where it would be useless, or threaten the health of the monster, Neimann could have made the decision to practice with the original Brain and have made that comment about technique to Talbot just to stall him and get him off his back. There are a lot of things in these movies that are either hinted at or not explained at all, so just because it does not show that he found the original brain does not mean that he did not.
Frankenstein's ghost asked Ludwig what if it had another brain. He didn't say a transplant wouldn't have worked.
Of course we know it was just Ludwig talking to himself, not the real ghost of Frankenstein. After Ghost, it was a few years before FMTW. (In the shooting script, the Monster said he was encased in the ice for years). Then, in House, the police said it was several years ago that the dam broke re the climax of FMTW. Thus, it may have been as long as ten years between Ghost and House. When Ludwig and Bohmer did their operations, they timed it so there was no prolonged intervening period between the removal from the Monster of the original brain and replacement with Ygor's brain. The removals were done simulataneously. I can't see taking a brain that had been removed from the Monster's body ten years earlier being put back in and all would be as before. Still, the body and brain had been endowed with life from the cosmic rays.
And once endowed with life from the cosmic rays they lived eternally. Even in Frankenstein and Bride, Henry commented on the organs being fresh, such as the heart for the Bride. It's interesting to speculate on all of this, though.
Apr 27 08 4:47 PM
Apr 27 08 8:21 PM
blackbiped wrote: My brain hurts.
Apr 27 08 9:12 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Even as a kid watching FRANKENSTEIN, it bugged me that Fritz got heat for stealing an abnormal brain when (in the opening reel) we saw Henry makes an on-camera attempt to steal the brain of the hanged criminal for use in the Monster. Unless that guy was hanged for jaywalking or something, what's the difference?
Apr 27 08 9:19 PM
Apr 27 08 9:23 PM
Apr 27 08 9:29 PM
Apr 27 08 9:53 PM
Apr 27 08 10:00 PM
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Apr 27 08 10:35 PM
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