Batman 1943 - a young fans reaction in Thrills and Chills Forum

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Batman 1943 - a young fans reaction

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HalLane		#21	[-]
Mar 20 08 9:23 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here's the thing about Columbia serials. I'd heard for years how funny the first Batman serial was. The costume looked absurd in the stills, and I'd heard that it was BATMAN that springboarded the camp craze (turns out it was the second Batman serial that did that). I saw this first Batman chapterplay in a small town theatre on Saturday mornings, one chapter at a time as God intended, just as our parents must have done when they were young, back in the '80s in Lockport, New York. Drove a half an hour each way every week that summer for the privilege. And y'know what? I never had a better time. Try as I might to poke fun at it, I couldn't get over how faithful it was to the comic books of its day. It really was Batman brought to life, and in the heart of WWII yet! The scene in Chapter 1 where he sits grim and brooding in his Batcave is iconic. Columbia serials don't have Republic's nonstop action or Universal's nonstop plot, but they're consistent among themselves, just as Stooge comedies belong to a separate reality we call Columbia. Whether Batman or Superman or whoever, I think they easily rise well above their reputations. Last Edited By: HalLane Mar 20 08 9:26 PM. Edited 2 times.
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captainmarvel1957		#22	[-]
Mar 20 08 10:30 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Like I said, Hal, God willing I'll be watching these fairly soon. First I have to get through The Adventure of Smilin' Jack!
LGravy		#23	[-]
Mar 20 08 11:19 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I love Smilin' Jack. I really appreciate the best of the Columbia and Universal serials, too, and celebrate them because they are different from the Republics, which were technically better made but lacked the inspired looniness of the other studios' output. Nobody could mistake Ace Drummond, The Spider Returns, Terry & the Pirates, Jungle Jim, Deadwood Dick or Junior G-Men for a Republic.
captainmarvel1957		#24	[-]
Mar 20 08 11:36 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I don't know, LGravy, I thought that Jungle Jim was pretty decent. Maybe I was awed, like I said, by the quality of the VCI print. But I think that some of the most harrowing scenes I've ever seen in a serial are in Jungle Jim---and they aren't even the action sequences or cliffhangers. It's the cats! The cats! There are principal players in Jungle Jim who do play scenes with big cats. And the actors aren't doubled in the scenes I'm talking about. The leading lady plays a couple of scenes where she is practically leaning on a full grown male lion---and the lion didn't always look to be very thrilled about it. I was in awe of that throughout the entire serial.
LGravy		#25	[-]
Mar 21 08 12:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Absolutely. Jungle Jim is the finest jungle serial I've ever seen. But nobody could mistake it for a Republic -- the studio whose "jungle" serials were, as a rule, filmed on the same spot as their western, outer-space, and North African serials and whose idea of mixing their cast with big cats is having a Baru the Jungle Boy wave a stick at nothing in particular and then cutting to a picture of a roaring lion.
captainmarvel1957		#26	[-]
Mar 21 08 1:22 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Am I right about the cat work in Jungle Jim, LGravy? They had to have had the best animal wrangler in Hollywood working on that serial. I couldn't believe how close Betty Jane Rhodes was to the lions.
cabmangray		#27	[-]
Mar 26 08 11:36 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cap, I'm not sure if this story is entirely true, but I recall the following about Superman. Republic was going to film a 12 or 15 chapter serial on Superman, when negotiations hit a snag. I think it was a matter of money, and talks dragged on for months. It got to the point when DC told Republic is was taking it's business to Columbia. So Republic, in retaliation, went to Faucett and signed Captain Marvel. And the winner of that battle was........ If any part of the story is wrong, please feel free to correct.
LGravy		#28	[-]
Mar 26 08 11:58 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	In 1940, National Comics and Republic were in negotiations and National wanted to see a script for Republic's THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN. They got one, and rejected it. Republic rewrote it as MYSTERIOUS DR. SATAN and changed the hero to the definitely non-super-powered Copperhead. Why did National object to the script? Was it too violent? Maybe, but more likely it took too many liberties with the characters, as Republic was prone to do with their acquired properties. Republic, having failed to land Superman, turned to Fawcett and acquired Superman's most bitter rival, releasing THE ADVENTURES OF CAPTAIN MARVEL in 1941, followed by SPY SMASHER (the Cap'n's bud from Whiz Comics) in 1942. It wasn't until 1943 that a DC character made it to the Columbia screen with BATMAN, and over the next few years Columbia released CONGO BILL, THE VIGILANTE, and HOP HARRIGAN. Finally, in 1948 that studio released SUPERMAN, which -- despite the fact that it's a dreadful serial -- was a big hit. Columbia followed that quickly with another BATMAN serial (called BATMAN AND ROBIN but advertised as THE NEW ADVENTURES OF BATMAN AND ROBIN) and then did a Superman sequel (ATOM MAN VS. SUPERMAN). Meanwhile, Republic capitalized on the success of the rival SUPERMAN serial by creating a new flying hero for KING OF THE ROCKET MEN (1949), who appeared in several sequels. www.inthebalcony.com
LGravy		#29	[-]
Mar 26 08 1:43 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh, and as a P.S., note that there's rampant speculation about Republic's CAPTAIN AMERICA serial (1943). What th' hell is it? Costume aside, it has no relation whatever to the comic book character. It seems likely Republic's original script starred a completely different character, and when the Cap'n America rights were obtained, the screenplay was simply rewritten for him (and not very well). I have always wondered if it wasn't going to be a third Fawcett comics character, Mr. Scarlet, whose alter-ego -- like the Cap'n's in the serial -- is a district attorney. I have heard, though, that it was actually written as RETURN OF THE COPPERHEAD. So your guess is as good as mine.
davlghry		#30	[-]
Mar 26 08 2:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Why out of all the DC comic books characters (or National at the time), did Columbia chose to make CONGO BILL, THE VIGILANTE and HOP HARRIGAN? These characters were backup features and rarely even appeared on covers, although, I believe, Hop Harrigan originated on a radio show. Maybe it was too daunting to do the more popular charactes like The Flash and Green Lantern because the effects would have been too expensive. I guess Congo Bill and Vigilante were just cheaper. Cheaper to get the rights. Cheaper to shoot. But they certainly didn't have the following of other National characters like Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Flash, Green Lantern, The Spectre, Dr. Fate, Starman, etc.
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LGravy		#31	[-]
Mar 26 08 3:23 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	'cause the rights were cheap, and the serials were promoted in the comic books, which sold hundreds of thousands of copies to movie-going-aged kids in those days. Why pay for the Green Lantern rights and worry about the cost of "special" effects when nabbing Hop Harrigan (released spring '46) got you the same promotion in All-American Comics? Plus, Hop was -- as you mentioned -- on the radio. Likewise, The Vigilante (released spring '47) and Congo Bill (fall '48) got you Action Comics. Not a bad deal, and although Hop is terrible, The Vigilante (with Ralph Byrd) is pretty good. Haven't seen Congo Bill yet.
BijouBob8mm		#32	[-]
Mar 27 08 8:55 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Is putting thousands of people into prison merely because of their ethnicity a question of "correctness"-- I don't think he was saying those real-life actions were correct, even back in the day, only that the film's attitude toward the Japanese in the wake of Pearl Harbor did not seem racist back when the film was made. I have frequently seen the first Batman serial come under attack as racist for its depiction of the Japanese, over the years...yet never hear anyone say using the Nazis as bad guys in films is ever politically incorrect. When I watch this serial, it doesn't seem any different than Lynda Carter's Season 1 Wonder Woman fighting the Germans in adventures set in that same era. We were at odds with both factions back during World War II, so both countries became convenient villains in cinema. Today, it is still not uncommon to use the Nazis (think Indiana Jones movies), yet more sensititivity is shown toward the depiction of the Japanese...in a sense, couldn't that be considered reverse racism? Yes, it was a mistake to lock up people based on their race, rather than their actions, no question about it. America had just been attacked by Japan, with whom it was not at war, China was being attacked by Japan as the Island Empire tried to expand. It wasn't just the U.S. who was regarding the Japanese with suspicion, at that time; many countries held hostile attitudes toward the Japanese during that period...something that is frequently forgotten, today. For better or worse, films are time capsules, capturing the mood of a moment. Last Edited By: BijouBob8mm Mar 27 08 10:03 AM. Edited 1 times.
davlghry		#33	[-]
Mar 27 08 10:25 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Good point, LG. The Vigilante and Congo Bill were probably picked because they appeared in Action Comics where kids went to read Superman. Other supporting National DC characters without special powers who might have been feasible as serial heroes: Wildcat, The Atom, The Sandman, The Crimson Avenger, Zatara the Magician, Sargon the Sorceror and Green Arrow (whose creation was probably influenced by THE GREEN ARCHER serial).
Wich2		#34	[-]
Mar 27 08 11:26 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	All well said, Bob. The Internment Camps here are a sad chapter; but to extend from that, that we need to soften our opinion of the 30's/40's era Empire of the Rising Sun is another matter... Read a decent history of The Rape of Nanking, the slavery of Korean/Philipine/Chinese "Comfort Women," the Japanese Eugenics Experiments (exactly like Mengeles'), and the recently-revealed, last-ditch effort to use left over Nazi radioactive waste to dirty-bomb San Francisco by way of Japanese submarine-based bomber. Nasty lot, those folks. Best, -Craig W.
BijouBob8mm		#35	[-]
Mar 27 08 12:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Watching some of the History Channel's documentaries certainly casts a different light on WW II. (Especially as so much information was not known to the general public until more recent times...and there may yet be things about the war we don't know.) Most of us grew up seeing the war through movies, which gave it a romanticized tint, not realizing how grim the reality of it was to people at the time. (Given our ages, most of us already knew the outcome of the war before watching the films. Not so for folks, back then.) Given their attention to detail, though, I notice the History Channel never once mentions the contributions of Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan or Batman during the war effort. (Those files must not yet be declassified.) If he were around today, I wonder what BATMAN producer Sam Katzman would think of us still discussing his serials after all these years, seeing them on DVD, etc. Last Edited By: BijouBob8mm Mar 27 08 12:15 PM. Edited 2 times.
LGravy		#36	[-]
Mar 27 08 3:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Katzman didn't produce the wartime BATMAN serial.... He did the later one, though.
Rick		#37	[-]
Mar 27 08 11:01 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm sure Jungle Sam would have been thrilled to be credited with something he hadn't had to pay for.
BijouBob8mm		#38	[-]
Mar 28 08 8:20 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Katzman didn't produce the wartime BATMAN serial.... He did the later one, though. Ooops! My bad. (For some reason thought he was on board for both.)
oldmanster		#39	[-]
Mar 28 08 10:36 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	...the Japanese Eugenics Experiments (exactly like Mengeles'), Nasty lot, those folks. Perspective is everything, certainly. I guess that's why we don't talk much about our own Eugenics movement that was authorized by the Supreme Court and continued forced sterilization of women into the 1970s. Horrific as individual events were (no question about that) there also was no Asian monopoly on the crushing of human rights; and I'm sure there are similar situations that occurred here that the general public will never hear/read about. That said, I certainly do agree with Bob that films are mirrors of their times, and it does no good to chastise or condemn the cultural bigotry of a serial such as Batman '43. ... Reed
BijouBob8mm		#40	[-]
Mar 28 08 12:51 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You know, Reed, we've probably given these cliffhangers more thought than those who were actually making them. I do recall the incident Craig mentioned, regarding Bob Kane on the set of the serial, asking about the Batmobile. That is, I remember reading about it in Kane's book Batman and Me; I wasn't actually there. (Although some mornings I feel like I've got that many years & miles on me, especially before that first cup of coffee!) You would have thought they could have at least thrown some cardboard batwing fins on the car, or something.
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Batman 1943 - a young fans reaction