Rondo voting has begun! Discuss Rondo here... in Rondo Hatton Classic Horror Awards Forum

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Rondo voting has begun! Discuss Rondo here...

Author	Comment
DrPaulArmstrong	Re: Good day to vote...	#81	[-]
Feb 7 07 5:59 PM More My Recent Posts	Ted asked me to chip in too, but I'm way late to the party--and the matter clearly has been settled. All I can do is echo what a tough job David and company have making these decisions. Films like SCI-FI BOYS (and CADAVRA) will present unique classification difficulties, but Rondo voters, for my money, seem savvy enough to take all factors into consideration. I, for one, can't wait to vote on March 11th. Kidding--I'm kidding! I kid...
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sketchyfrank	Re: Good day to vote...	#82	[-]
Feb 7 07 6:08 PM More My Recent Posts	That Dr. Armstrong! He does science!...and comedy!! Frank Dietz www.sketchythings.com
mmarquee	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!" My official protest.	#83	[-]
Feb 7 07 6:20 PM More My Recent Posts	I only noticed this thread by Ted today, but I got a review copy of THE SCI FI BOYS in the same package as my review copy of Jackson's KING KONG. No way should THE SCI FI BOYS be considered Independent. The subject matter is "fannish" but the film itself is being handled by a major with major distribution and money behind it. Fair is fair! However, I don't think the category should be changed for this year. Tim's point is a sound one... ballots have already been cast. But I just want, for next year, to consider just how we define "Independent" production. Would THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT be called an independent production? It was produced for $30,000 independently and sold to a major who made a mint out of it. These are the tough questions that I suspect make poor David Colton pull out his hair. Keep telling yourself it's only an award. Let's have fun... but think about the definition for next year. And Jessie, working at Universal or not, THE SCI FI BOYS received large print ads in FILMFAX and other genre magazines BEFORE it's release... paid for by Universal. It was all over the media and Scott Essman, a Universal PR guy, was sending out press releases to all the magazines and web sites, etc. It was heavily promoted. Best, Gary J. Svehla
DrPaulArmstrong	Re: Good day to vote...	#84	[-]
Feb 7 07 6:28 PM More My Recent Posts	<<He does science!...and comedy!!>> I told you, Frank--I told you I was funny!
mmarquee	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#85	[-]
Feb 7 07 6:55 PM More My Recent Posts	You know what, I thought and thought, and I think David Colton and Tim Lucas are absolutely right (sorry Ted)... THE SCI FI BOYS should be considered an Independent production as long as it was produced independently and not with one cent of Universal money. If the filmmakers were lucky enought to get Universal to buy it, well, it's still an Independent production. This story changed my mind. I had a few former students who made a film in Baltimore independently a few years ago called GHOST WATCHER (I believe that was the title). It won the FANTASTIC FILM FESTIVAL which Sue and I sponsored a few years back. Well, the film was picked up and released by Lions Gate last year. It was totally an indie film and the fact that a major picked it up doesn't disquality its indie roots. I'd say as long as the production was independently produced and financed, the fact that a major released and distributed the film should not disquality it. As was pointed out, TERROR IN THE TROPICS was made on a shoe-sstring but Alpha picked it up for national distribution. And if that film is not considered independent, I don't know what is. Change of mind, change of heart. Go Rondos Go! Gary
The Drunken Severed Head	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!" My official protest.	#86	[-]
Feb 7 07 8:24 PM More My Recent Posts	"Would THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT be called an independent production? It was produced for $30,000 independently and sold to a major who made a mint out of it. These are the tough questions that I suspect make poor David Colton pull out his hair." That last sentence is one we can all agree on! I thought and thought, and I don't think you should have changed your mind, Gary. The reason I believe you were right the first time is the why behind placing a film in the independent category. It surely can't be the budget -- some low budget films sure do disguise well the fact that they were made on the cheap -- but because of the odds that they will get proper recognition. Any film that has major studio money behind deserves to compete with bigger budget films, I believe. I base my vote largely on story, acting, and factors that any film can compete on. I'd separate "independent" films on the basis on independent production AND distribution, so as to even up the odds. Eh, just my two cents. Here's a third and fourth cent: it's a tough call this year! Max
taraco	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!" My official protest.	#87	[-]
Feb 7 07 8:32 PM Burgomaster More My Recent Posts	I think it's situational: -- THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT for sure was an independent film, but had the Rondos been around back then I would have put in the Best Film category. Why? Because it got SUCH a major push and became a cultural phenomenom. Similarly, LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA grew beyond its indie roots and was in Best Film. -- A case can be made, and has, that SCI FI BOYS also got a push its competitors didn't. But for all that, it remained a small and largely genre work with, OK, a brief run at Best Buy. It almost broke through into that higher plane, but in truth really didn't. Still feels fan-based to me. -- Now had SCI FI BOYS played last year on the Sci Fi Channel (as it is doing this week), I might have made it a nominee for Best TV Presentation, and avoided all this entirely. david
Terry Pace	The BLAIR WITCH Dividing Line	#88	[-]
Feb 7 07 8:36 PM More My Recent Posts	I think Gary brought up an excellent comparison with BLAIR WITCH: If you judge that film's "independence" on its pre-distribution origins, it's clearly as "independent" as they get. But if your definition stops there, and you discount it because it (a) was picked up for widespread distribution, and (b) had tons of promotional money behind it, then did it lose its "independence" in the process? I suppose purists could persuasively argue that it does. Personally, though, I don't think so, unless there's major studio interference or other artistic compromises along the way. And aren't films like BLAIR WITCH, LOST SKELETON and (one of my favorites) BUBBA HO-TEP out there to give a beacon of hope and encouragement to other independent filmmakers, assuring that they might have at least a CJAMCE to be embraced by a major distributor and break through to the mainstream? Can you imagine a filmmaker turning down that opportunity unless it endangered the artistic integrity of his or her work? There may be a few out there, but personally I don't know of ANY filmmaker (I help run a film festival, so I know hundreds) who wants to preserve his "independence" at the cost of his work (without significant compromises, of course) reaching a broad-based audience. Again, I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Independence is in the eye of the beholder. On the Joe Dante footage, I hope I made the point that Universal issued a lot of "This has to be done, and it has to be done NOW!" dictates in terms of rights and releases very late in the game. (I was told that a sweet, funny little segment involving Forry and my infant son was trimmed for similar reasons. All was said and done in the short time it took for me to return a phone call.) I believe Joe was away or busy working on a project, and it's possible that he wasn't even aware that his interview footage was in jeopardy until it was too late. I know that everyone involved was VERY sorry that it didn't work out. I've seen Joe with Paul and others involved in THE SCI-FI BOYS very recently, and there didn't seem to be a hint of bitterness or animosity between them. Anyway, everyone out there please VOTE -- one way or another -- in every category, and let the Rondo results speak for themselves! Terry Pace pillaroffire@bellsouth.net "They'll have to think up a lot of new adjectives when I come back!" -- Carl Denham (Robert Armstrong) in KING KONG
The Drunken Severed Head	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!" My official protest.	#89	[-]
Feb 8 07 1:53 AM More My Recent Posts	"-- A case can be made, and has, that SCI FI BOYS also got a push its competitors didn't. But for all that, it remained a small and largely genre work with, OK, a brief run at Best Buy. It almost broke through into that higher plane, but in truth really didn't." As usual, David, you show that you make nuanced and careful decisions. The Rondo category decisions are in good hands. The distinction made between SCI-FI BOYS and BLAIR WITCH PROJECT and THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA was instructive and made me think. I hate it when that happens! I wonder if the independent category will ever grow big enough to break down into further categories. Right now documentaries are up against dramas and comedies. (As with the Oscars, I always feel a bit sorry for the chances of comedies nominated for best film. They almost never win, and rarely do pure comedies even get nominated. Better to be a "dramedy".) THE NAKED MONSTER and TERROR IN THE TROPICS are definitely the underdogs, I'm guessing. (I like ALL the nominees this year, however.) Max
taraco	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#90	[-]
Feb 8 07 2:13 AM Burgomaster More My Recent Posts	>>I wonder if the independent category will ever grow big enough to break down into further categories. This will sound silly, but the making of the statues -- not so much the cost, although it adds up for sure -- but the making of the statues is no small thing and we haven't figured out a way to mass produce them. So each one is carefully cast, each one is painted, each one gets a nameplate, each one is mounted on a pedestal (OK, that part's easy), and each one is a work of art and sharing and monster love by those involved, especially Rondocaster Tim Lindsey. I quite literally am reluctant to add or slice and dice categories and make new ones because there are still three people from last year who still haven't gotten their Rondo busts. I shudder at needing to make even more every year as we add categories. And perhaps that, too, is why these little guys, so wonderfully created by Kerry Gammill, are so eagerly sought and so precious. They are very special. So sometimes perhaps we mash-up (as the kids say), a few categories to keep things as simple and basic as we can. Because in truth, yes, some categories do need to be split or added. Best CD, like Independents, is a mix of soundtracks and monster bands; a new Best Horror Fiction category would be great; should mass-market monster toys go against hand-crafted garage kits; we've talked about a Podcast/audio/radio category; what about a separate category for blogs instead of all the websites, message boards and blogs being mixed together? Then there's the import, Region 2 issue. Should Rondo try to conquer the world? Etc. For all that, we're trying to keep it simple and yet grow. We added Best DVD Commentary last year, and added Best Classic TV and Best Artist this year. We think Rondo can get a bit bigger and smarter and more diverse in the future. After all, we're only five. Wait until we come into the light! david
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The Drunken Severed Head	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#91	[-]
Feb 8 07 2:42 AM More My Recent Posts	I say dumb things sometimes. Thanks for all the hard work, Kerry and David! (I even compared the chances for a Rondo for comedies to the chances of a comedy for an Oscar! But after I thought about it, I realized Rondo voters are much more likely to embrace a comedy. SHAUN OF THE DEAD and FLIP got Rondos!) Max
taraco	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#92	[-]
Feb 8 07 2:44 AM Burgomaster More My Recent Posts	>> I say dumb things sometimes. No no not at all. It just got me to thinking. The reality of the Rondos shouldn't prevent us all from thinking bigger and better. After all, someday the Rondos will be televised, and we better be ready! david 'Well, I can dream, can't I?'
JessieLilley	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#93	[-]
Feb 8 07 10:07 AM More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* After all, someday the Rondos will be televised, and we better be ready! We'll just have to clone Kerry and Tim.
Count Gamula	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#94	[-]
Feb 8 07 10:09 AM Burgomaster More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Thanks for all the hard work, Kerry and David! Thanks for including me but I want to make it clear that, aside from sculpting the bust, helping with some graphics and acting as an advisor, I'm not really involved with the award that much. Except for casting the busts which is done by the very talented Tim Lindsey, David does almost everything himself, though I don't know how he manages it. Like Thing on The Adams Family, I just lend a hand when needed.
JessieLilley	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#95	[-]
Feb 8 07 1:11 PM More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* ...aside from sculpting the bust... sigh Kerry, Kerry, Kerry. Let me hip you to a minor point here. Taking NOTHING away from David and whomever his other elves are... WE ALL WANT ONE!!!!!! Dare I say it? The bust's the thing. There is so MUCH one can do with a line like that.
horrorheadfred	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#96	[-]
Feb 8 07 3:47 PM More My Recent Posts	yes, there's nothing quite like an excellent bust.
Joe Karlosi	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#97	[-]
Feb 8 07 8:35 PM More My Recent Posts	Or two. ---------------------- "It's MORE ... than a hobby!"
Gary D Macabre	indie or not indie	#98	[-]
Feb 8 07 10:03 PM More My Recent Posts	I'm going to sound off on the Sci-fi boys as indie. I strongly feel that distribution should not be a factor regarding inclusion in this catagory. The fact that the film was CREATED completely independantly is what is of importance. The fact that Universal picked it up after the fact for distribution is entirely irrelevant to the quality of the film. It is disappointing if the voters vote for the film without knowing anything about the other nominees, solely because they have had access to the film. But this falls upon the voters, and not the film makers. G. Macabre
Ted Newsom	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#99	[-]
Feb 8 07 11:28 PM More My Recent Posts	Some of their footage was clearly shot some time back-- the home movies, camcorder stuff at conventions, Forry and Paul Davids out at George Pal's cemetery... but in as much as: -- it was produced by Paul's wife Hollace, a VP of special projects for Universal (then and now), and just by coincidence happens to have been released by Universal... -- that during the post-production phase of editing, they were given the directive-- by the studio lawyers-- to replace the sound tracks to the p.d. trailers because of big-studio issues about music rights (something that I guarentee you would not happen if a project were "independent"; trust me, been there-- it's only the majors that are so paranoid about something that is perfectly legal), hence having our boy Tor re-narrate all the trailers; -- given that there were last minute jumping through hoops with regard to release forms on Joe Dante and others (which, again, would only happen under the aegis of litigation-fearing studio lawyers)... -- and given that the show has clips from no less than nine major films (primarily, by utter coincidence, Universal: JURASSIC PARK, the recent MUMMY, VAN HELSING, CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK and 2 minutes of KING KONG, plus TERMINATOR 2, THE ABYSS, the Pal WAR OF THE WORLDS), the rights to which would be financially impossible to procure had the project not been associated with a major distributor/studio, and probably financially out of the question even if these assorted companies did decide to license them to you (Jessie's $500 per photo quote not withstanding, the going rate for outsiders licensing material such as this worldwide in perpetuity would be about $10,000 per minute or fraction thereof-- which means these clips alone would've cost an indie producer about $90,000) ... ... I respectfully disagree that this project was not done under the eye of a major studio. If it was, for instance, a negative pick-up-- that is, no money would be paid back until the final cut is delivered-- it's still a "studio" project, since contractually they, not the producers, have the final say (witness the replacement of the sound tracks, absurd worry about not including Joe Dante's interview because he hadn't signed off, etc.) That Paul & his wife (and brother? Co-producer/editor; all of whom did a lovely job) may well have had an otherwise free hand in crafting the show is beside the point, as is the merit of the show and its good heart. MOST films nowadays give the film makers a similarly free hand. Compare this project to Conor Timmis' ingenuous use of clips from the classic Universal movies; does anyone truly think he could get the same bargain rate for the MUMMY and FRANKENSTEIN clips in his show? Or the Cal State Northridge project mentioned elsewhere by Robert Lenniger. Or that CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON doc some guys did last year-- would Universal pick up the project? Not a chance. Could they-- genuinely independent film makers-- possibly convince Universal to waive the $10,000 per minute fee for clips, or be expected to come up with an extra $100,000 or $200,000 to buy the clips, again, assuming Universal would even be interested in letting them have them? No. That's the difference between being dependent and independent. If this really had been what people assume it was-- a labor of love shot entirely outside the studio system, which on its own merits just happened to be so loved by the people at a major distributor that they bought it up-- then I'd see the point in considering it "independent." For now, as far as the voting is concerned, it's one of the bunch.
JessieLilley	Re: "Rondo voting has begun!"	#100	[-]
Feb 8 07 11:43 PM More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* (Jessie's $500 per photo quote not withstanding, the going rate for outsiders licensing material such as this worldwide in perpetuity would be about $10,000 per minute or fraction thereof-- which means these clips alone would've cost an indie producer about $90,000) Yeah, but this was used (by me) to show the low end of things. I know about the $500 'cause I just had to license it for Gloria. And let me tell you that this lowly secretary didn't get any deal because she worked at Uni. Would that she had....
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Rondo voting has begun! Discuss Rondo here...