The Empire Strikes Back (1980) thread in '80s and '90s Horror and Sci-Fi Forum

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The Empire Strikes Back (1980) thread

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Jonatwork		#121	[-]
Jul 8 11 11:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	In The Secret History of Star Wars the writer makes an excellent point, which is that while the rest of the series is for SF and STAR WARS fans, the first one was much more accessible to general audiences, and to them the Cantina scene was very entertaining because it was a collection of creatures, some cheesy. I think that roughness bugged Lucas--he wants everything to fit his conception. People laughed during the Cantina scene, and really seemed to enjoy it, but apparently that wasn't enough for him. Irvin Kershner said that he LIKES what some people would call "mistakes" in a movie because they show the movie isn't made by machines, that it's a human creation. I think there's a lot of wisdom there, in comparison to the obssessing over every tiny detail. For me, one thing that made the Special Editions so irritating was the way Lucas stuck THINGS into every square inch of empty space. He took every opportunity to jam something 'new' in, and usually it was something 'funny' like a little robot having a cartoonish reaction and flying away. The first movie and EMPIRE both BREATHE now and then. The others are overly cluttered with STUFF. “The more elaborate our means of communication, the less we communicate.” Joseph Priestley Last Edited By: Jonatwork Jul 8 11 11:36 PM. Edited 1 times.
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Mechshark75		#122	[-]
Jul 9 11 9:29 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Kersh was very astute in his observations.
Uchujin65		#123	[-]
Jul 9 11 5:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	George Lucas definitely became obsessed with cluttering up his environments. The Jabba the Hutt's palace scene has 80 monsters in it. The attack on the second Death Star has hundreds of ships in every shot. Some of it (mostly the early analogue stuff I quite like personally, it's a like a super detailed realistic painting, but some of it is also overkill. Lucas definitely began to favor spectacle too much over story. As a filmmaker and artist it's a real struggle to keep a balance between keeping an open mind and allowing serendipity to mold your vision and allowing your actors and crew input and staying stubbornly true to your own vision. On the one hand you don't want to work too hard on keeping everyone happy instead of pursuing your own vision as a filmmaker but on the other hand you don't want to wear out and alienate people and start producing work that is self indulgent and cold like Lucas' current output. jlcarrozza.com
Jonatwork		#124	[-]
Jul 10 11 3:00 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Uchujin65 wrote: " allowing serendipity to mold your vision and allowing your actors and crew" In my far more limited filmmaking experiences, improvisation, looking at the location/set on the day of shooting, and just trying unplanned things in the editing process have all resulted in the projects coming ALIVE. Not coincidentally, every one of my paintings that works happened because I had a general idea and just started painting. (One of my favorite paintings I almost junked, then I stepped back, looked at it, and flipped it upside-down. Twenty minutes' more painting later, it was one of the best things I ever painted.) This is even more the case with writing. I think what you're wisely describing here is what I'll call for a lack of a more precise term "life" and that's what so many great films of Lucas's generation's era brought to stuffy Hollywood 'product' thinking. I don't like ganging up on the guy, but man, his movies now are far more hermetically-sealed, dead things than 90% of that product, which at least has real people in real locations. This isn't just limited to Lucas, of course, but I won't go on, the Internet is only so big. “The more elaborate our means of communication, the less we communicate.” Joseph Priestley
Jonatwork		#125	[-]
Jul 23 11 10:22 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This has one of my favorite scores of all time, but one of the great moments in this is unscored. When Luke and Vader are fighting and Vader thinks he has Luke trapped, he turns on the steam cleaning machine, and then Luke is scrambling around the pipes. Vader slashes at him, Luke hits him in the face with the broken steam pipe, uses the Force to grab his lightsabre, and then the battle is joined again. There is a wide shot of the two of them battling, turning, with the smoke all over the place in that set... For some reason, when I first saw this as a 14-year-old, this moment was almost overwhelming in a way I can't quite describe. I'd been waiting for this movie, and for this MOMENT for three years--Luke and Vader finally battling each other--and it was not what I had hoped it would be, it was actually BETTER--and I had ridiculously high expectations. That shot involves no dialogue, no spaceships, but it is so dramatic because our hero is finally facing up to his biggest challenge--and the outcome is in doubt. He's not losing, he's actually holding his own...but that's not going to be enough, I felt. I think of this sometimes when I read people talking about the current comic book and SF movies, and how "You KNOW the hero won't lose, he has to be alive so they can make a sequel." Well, if you write a good story, you can create incredible suspense that makes you forget all that Entertainment Tonight stuff. “The more elaborate our means of communication, the less we communicate.” Joseph Priestley
delgadosaur		#126	[-]
Jul 28 11 11:46 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The March roars through some of these scenes, and does nothing but add to what I think was Vader's badd @$$ness throughout this story. He was such a monster in this film, fueling and furthering his role in Star Wars.
Jonatwork		#127	[-]
Jul 29 11 11:37 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think if John Williams could do it over he wouldn't have scored Darth Vader with the Imperial March. Two different themes would have made a lot more sense. If anything, the Emperor could have had the same theme as the empire. Which just adds to the 'Lucas made it up as he went along' idea. “The more elaborate our means of communication, the less we communicate.” Joseph Priestley
delgadosaur		#128	[-]
Aug 7 11 3:51 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I agree completely, but it's still really cool. Last Edited By: delgadosaur Aug 8 11 11:32 AM. Edited 1 times.
Jonatwork		#129	[-]
Aug 7 11 11:26 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ugh, that word.... “The more elaborate our means of communication, the less we communicate.” Joseph Priestley
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delgadosaur		#130	[-]
Aug 8 11 11:33 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Re-edited, Jon, just for you.
hermanthegerm	Why you should watch the Star Wars movies in the proper order....	#131	[-]
Oct 4 11 12:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	...You just don’t wanna ruin the original movies. "There is a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom when something blows up, so I'll give them a boom." George Lucas as quoted by Harlan Ellison's WATCHING
delgadosaur		#132	[-]
Oct 4 11 2:41 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Herm, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for posting. Awesome.
Uchujin65		#133	[-]
Oct 4 11 4:05 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Jonatwork wrote: I think if John Williams could do it over he wouldn't have scored Darth Vader with the Imperial March. Two different themes would have made a lot more sense. If anything, the Emperor could have had the same theme as the empire. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Don't give George Lucas any sick ideas for the 3-D edition... jlcarrozza.com
GhostofChaneysLiver		#134	[-]
Oct 7 11 4:43 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Saw this and had to share. Cromwell
Uchujin65		#135	[-]
Oct 7 11 11:20 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	GhostofChaneysLiver wrote: Saw this and had to share. Cromwell Should have used that with Padme before he got it burned off in the fires of Mustafar... jlcarrozza.com
skelton knaggs		#136	[-]
Mar 28 12 1:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"You can't smell any reefer, can you"?
delgadosaur		#137	[-]
Apr 3 12 8:48 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I gave up Star Wars and Indiana Jones for Lent and I'm barely gonna make it to Sunday, lol.
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The Empire Strikes Back (1980) thread