The Legend of Lizzie Borden - Elizabeth Montgomery in TV Terrors Forum

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The Legend of Lizzie Borden - Elizabeth Montgomery

Author	Comment
Robert Summit		#21	[-]
Dec 16 09 12:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wish I'd kept my VHS of this! By the way, Elizabeth Montgomery was a distant relative of Lizzie Borden. "If you had a face like mine, you'd punch me right in the nose, and I'm just the fella that can do it!"
Uncle Bingo		#22	[-]
Dec 16 09 12:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Lizzie was the OJ of her time. Everyone felt she did it, but her "dream team" of lawyers got her off. It will always remain a mystery though. I also saw a "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" that was about the Borden case. It wasn't too bad. I spent my honeymoon night in the actual Borden house and slept in the master bedroom! It was near Halloween and when my new wife and I arrived, everyone there thought we were just dressed up for Halloween. I lived to tell the tale but the marriage didn't.
will		#23	[-]
Dec 16 09 2:26 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If I remember correctly, she burned it in front of a friend, but it was a beat-up dress with paint on it, not what she was wearing on the day of the murders. I suppose she could have changed into it. They also never found the murder weapon. What was produced at the trial wasn't it.
Grant		#24	[-]
Dec 16 09 5:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think the flashback scenes also suggested something that (even though it's an incredibly serious subject) has become a huge cliche in dramatic true stories, and that's that she'd been molested by her father. Now you can hardly see a dramatic true story WITHOUT that subject in it, but when that TV movie was made it was a pretty different matter. So they were being a little bold, even to suggest it indirectly.
Gord Shriver		#25	[-]
Dec 16 09 6:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've read a fair amount of Borden books, and one (GOODBYE, LIZZIE BORDEN, I think) was a pretty persuasive book, stating that it was a cousin of Lizzie's that actually committed the murders, and that Lizzie took the rap for it. Would love to go Fall River and stay at her house, which is a bed and breakfast. They have a website, too,
oldmanster		#26	[-]
Dec 16 09 6:51 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Try Miss Lizzie by Walter Satterthwaite. It's fiction, but strongly based on the actual events. Probably Satterthwaite's best novel. ... Reed
will		#27	[-]
Dec 16 09 7:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think Lizzie probably did it, but it's not like O.J. They didn't have DNA evidence back then and the prosecution's case had some real holes in it. For many years what people were using to judge the evidence was a slanted presentation by, I think, his name was Pearson. It isn't by any means an open and shut case. But if she didn't do it, who did? Other than the victims, only the maid, Bridget, and Lizzie were in the house. Her sister and uncle were away and had alibis. Coudn't have been an intruder because her father wasn't home when the stepmother was murdered. Makes no sense the intruder would hang around with two people in the house and wait for the father to show up to kill him. Some theories name Bridget as the killer. She may have killed the stepmother in a rage because she was being forced to work when she wasn't feeling well, but why would she kill the father? Lizzie had the best motive and the best opportunity, but it was still a circumstantial case and Lizzy had better lawyers. Last Edited By: will Dec 16 09 8:01 PM. Edited 2 times.
Bill Warren		#28	[-]
Dec 17 09 3:30 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As sung by the Chad Mitchell Trio Yesterday in old Fall River, Mr. Andrew Borden died And they got his daughter Lizzie on a charge of homicide. Some folks say she didn't do it, and others say of course she did But they all agree Miss Lizzie B. was a problem kind of kid 'Cause you can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts Not even if it's planned as a surprise (a surprise) No, you can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts You know how neighbors love to criticize. She got him on the sofa where he'd gone to take a snooze And I hope he went to heaven 'cause he wasn't wearing shoes Lizzie kind of rearranged him with a hatchet, so they say Then she got her mother in that same old-fashioned way, But you can't chop your Momma up in Massachusetts Not even if you're tired of her cuisine (her cuisine) No, you can't chop your Momma up in Massachusetts You know it's almost sure to cause a scene. Well, they really kept her hoppin' on that busy afternoon With both down and upstairs choppin' while she hummed a ragtime tune. They really made her hustle and when all was said and done, She'd removed her mother's bustle when she wasn't wearing one. Oh, you can't chop your Momma up in Massachusetts And then blame all the damage on the mice (on the mice) No, you can't chop your Momma up in Massachusetts That kind of thing just isn't very nice. Now, it wasn't done for pleasure and it wasn't done for spite And it wasn't done because the lady wasn't very bright. She'd always done the slightest thing that Mom and Poppa bid; They said, "Lizzie, cut it out!"; so that's exactly what she did. But you can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts And then get dressed and go out for a walk (for a walk) No, you can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts Massachusetts is a far cry from New York. No, you can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts--- (Shut the door and lock and latch it; Here comes Lizzie with a brand new hatchet!) You can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts--- (Such a snob I heard it said, She met her pa and cut him dead!) You can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts--- (Jump like a fish, jump like a porpoise; All join hands in habeas corpus!) You can't chop your Poppa up in Massachusetts--- Massachusetts is a far cry from New York!
Saturday8pm		#29	[-]
Dec 17 09 6:08 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Interesting this nugget is mentioned, as it was on my mind this past October. Has anybody here actually stayed at the house? It's a B'n'B now ...
Cadaverino		#30	[-]
Dec 17 09 6:36 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Saturday8pm wrote: Interesting this nugget is mentioned, as it was on my mind this past October. Has anybody here actually stayed at the house? It's a B'n'B now ... See post #22.
blackbiped		#31	[-]
Dec 18 09 1:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I wouldn't stay in that house if you paid me. Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way. Porfle's Secret Blog HK and Cult Film News Andersonvision.com
PhantomXCI		#32	[-]
Dec 28 09 12:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	What we're forgetting is that the two murders were committed about 90 minutes apart, and both were very messy. If Lizzie had committed the murders while clothed, she would have to have changed her dress twice in 2 hours! In that light, the "nude" theory makes more sense. Additionally, a recent investigation into the case (presented by History Channel, IIRC) utilized that chemical which makes blood stains glow blue (luminol?). The investigators found an area of the basement, where once stood a wash tub, to be splattered with gore. They concluded that Lizzie bathed there between killings.
Cadaverino		#33	[-]
Dec 28 09 1:30 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	PhantomXCI wrote: What we're forgetting is that the two murders were committed about 90 minutes apart, and both were very messy. If Lizzie had committed the murders while clothed, she would have to have changed her dress twice in 2 hours! If one wanted to commit double murder, would that have been too arduous a task?
PhantomXCI		#34	[-]
Dec 28 09 1:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cadaverino wrote: PhantomXCI wrote: What we're forgetting is that the two murders were committed about 90 minutes apart, and both were very messy. If Lizzie had committed the murders while clothed, she would have to have changed her dress twice in 2 hours! If one wanted to commit double murder, would that have been too arduous a task? Not at all. But it would have required her to discard/destroy two dresses. While the Borden's were far from poor, they were very frugal. I imagine new dresses didn't come along all that often. And with all those fancy victorian frills on their finery, they took better care of their clothes than we do today. Why is it so difficult to imagine Lizzie committing the deed in the nude? She and her victim were the only people in the house at the time, the doors were locked, the maid was outside doing the laundry, and Lizzie herself told people she was in the barn looking for lead sinkers. Lizzie could have danced the carioca naked and nobody but her victim would have known... and Lizzie was going to make sure they didn't tell.
Cadaverino		#35	[-]
Dec 28 09 4:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Lizzie wears dress A that morning. She murders her stepmother Abbey and gets dress A bloody. She changes to dress B. Ninety minutes later, her father comes home for lunch and a nap. Lizzie changes back to dress A and murders him, getting dress A bloodier (although if she stood in the doorway, behind his couch, she would have been partially shielded). She changes to dress B. A few days later, Lizzie burns dress A in the stove, telling others that it had paint on it.
Reegs		#36	[-]
Dec 28 09 5:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	PhantomXCI wrote: ... Lizzie could have danced the carioca naked ... Mmmmmm ... Elizabeth Montgomery dancing the carioca naked ..... er, sorry, you were saying?
PhantomXCI		#37	[-]
Dec 28 09 7:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cadaverino wrote: Lizzie wears dress A that morning. She murders her stepmother Abbey and gets dress A bloody. She changes to dress B. Ninety minutes later, her father comes home for lunch and a nap. Lizzie changes back to dress A and murders him, getting dress A bloodier (although if she stood in the doorway, behind his couch, she would have been partially shielded). She changes to dress B. A few days later, Lizzie burns dress A in the stove, telling others that it had paint on it. If you assume she was never nude during the whole process, there are still some points which remain unexplained... specifically, the lack of a blood trail. If her dress was splattered (as we have to assume it was, since it served double-duty in two brutal axings), Lizzie would have left a trail of blood smeared across the floor, baseboards, and on anything else a long dress would have brushed against. That would have required Lizzie to change into a clean dress, then clean up every single drop of blood which she may have trailed through the house, then change that dress (which probably got bloody in the cleaning process) before opening the door and calling for help. That still leaves us with two bloody dresses. AFAIR, no trail of blood was detected by the police. So... either Lizzie did a thorough job of cleaning up every single drop of blood between the guest room, her room, the stairs, the parlor, the basement stairs... or she killed them in the nude, used a handy towel to wipe her legs and feet of any blood which might have trailed behind her, then bathed and changed back into her dress. At least we're in agreement that Lizzie did it. ...Or maybe Dr. Tumblety did it.
amarok		#38	[-]
Dec 28 09 9:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	After years of reading books on Lizzie, a single detail in one book I read a couple of years ago (and durn it if I can't recall which) made me forget the "unknown intruder" idea, at least. The Borden house could be divided roughly into two halves, which were connected by a single interior door. Mrs. Borden was killed in one half, and Mr. Borden in the other. But at the time of the murders, this door was not only locked, but blocked off by furniture. The killer not only had to wait 90 minutes between the murders, s/he would have had to exit one side of the house, walk around to the other side, and enter there to await Mr. Borden. Or am I remembering wrong?
PhantomXCI		#39	[-]
Dec 29 09 8:27 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Abby Borden was killed in the upstairs guest bedroom. 90 minutes later, Andrew Borden was killed in the downstairs parlor. There was a main stairway in the front of the house (there may have been another stairway in the back... I don't have my notes handy). The front door was bolt-locked from the inside, the back door was key-locked by Lizzie, who claimed she had gone to the barn to search for lead sinkers (for 90 minutes). Emma Borden was away visiting friends. Bridget the maid was outside doing laundry. So, the murder was committed by someone who was given access by Abby or Andrew, OR by Lizzie, who had a key and could enter/exit the house through the back door without being seen.
luisj40		#40	[-]
Dec 30 09 4:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Would love to see this movie again I remember very little just that I wasn't able to watch BETWITCHED without thinking of Montgomery as a lunatic killer. Luis

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The Legend of Lizzie Borden - Elizabeth Montgomery