Scrooge ponderings; Dickens' interpretation of theology stands as quite in contrast to historical Pauline theology

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Author	Comment
hermanthegerm	Crystal Skull DVD	#81	[-]
(02/26/09 4:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	I saw Spielberg directing a scene in front of the computer screen giving instructions to the animator. I'm sure this film was easier to direct. But with all the additional technology, knowledge and experience is it a better film than Raiders?
BijouBob8mm		#82	[-]
(02/26/09 5:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	is it a better film than Raiders? Open that can of worms! I can't believe, after all the years of waiting and all the writers & rewrites, what we ended up with. But, to be fair, the flaws with the new film don't come from the technology as much as from the story itself. (Keep in mind that Ray Harryhausen used the exact same techniques he had been using for years with SINBAD AND THE EYE OF THE TIGER, but that didn't result in a film on par with some of his previous movies.) Filmmaking technology has evolved, but storytelling skills seem to have dwindled. (And it's only a matter of time before someone gets around to making MY MOTHER THE CAR: THE MOVIE.)
Wich2		#83	[-]
(02/26/09 5:17 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	JIM CARREY in the iconic Jerry Van Dyke role! CGI car by ILM!! And special appearance by MERYL STREEP as the voice of "Mother"!!!
BijouBob8mm		#84	[-]
(02/26/09 5:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	And special appearance by MERYL STREEP as the voice of "Mother"!!! stoppit!!!
hermanthegerm		#85	[-]
(02/26/09 7:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	My point is that not all change is for the better (illustrating my previous comment.)
BijouBob8mm		#86	[-]
(02/28/09 10:17 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	not all change is for the better Totally agree. I used to work with/for someone who was all about change simply for the sake of change. Didn't matter if the new way worked or not; there was no going back. Something new that worked for another organization wouldn't automatically work for ours. Unfortunately, the practicality or appropriateness of change for what we did was not always thought through before being adopted. It created a very frustrating work environment.
Wich2		#87	[-]
(02/28/09 11:28 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	(Everett Shinn, 1938)
Scathach80		#88	[-]
(04/16/09 6:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Buzz Dixon wrote: We are saved through the grace of God. Not all who believe will be saved (the New Testament points out that Satan and his demons believe Jesus is the Son of God). Christ himself said that not everyone who claims to be a follower will be saved (he seems to be referring to hypocrites who adopt only an outward appearance of faith and morality). The key component seems to be a genuine desire to surrender to God's will, to place one's self entirely in His hands. Saying you want to be saved but not even trying to obey God by changing one's sinful nature indicates the conversion experience wasn't a genuine one. That first paragraph reminds of the Constantine film in 2005, where Gabriel informs Constantine that his firsthand experience of the demons and so forth means that he lost an avenue of salvation.
Scathach80		#89	[-]
(04/16/09 6:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	hermanthegerm wrote: Scathach80 wrote: Anyway, the main reason I started this thread; it struck me that Dickens lived in a less tolerant time than we do... Years ago, I would agree with you. Today, not so much. Nowadays I view the world as constantly changing, not constantly improving. Feeling morally superior to people or cultures in the Past is, very likely, a mistake on our part. People in the Future are likely to judge us in the same manner as we judge those in the Past. And before you post a response, I don't expect anyone else to agree with me. No need for debate here, this is just my personal view. Britain, France, and Canada have probably turned more tolerant. See my reference to Terrence McNally.
Scathach80		#90	[-]
(05/16/09 6:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Come to think of it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_and_Dives Dives' stifled desire to revisit Israel to warn his brothers of his torment resembles Jacob Marley's successful and celebrated manifestation to similarly steer Ebenezer Scrooge from the path to Gehenna in "A Christmas Carol" by Charles Dickens. (I should hope that Marley got reincarnated for a second chance at redemption. I feel a bit squeamish about condemning somebody to eternal suffering and torture-you know, that whole cruel and unusual punishment thing.)
Buzz Dixon		#91	[-]
(05/16/09 8:42 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Marley's chains are the chains he has forged himself; what he is suffering is not what was imposed on him but what he willingly embraced. A Catholic might argue that Marley is in Purgatory.
BijouBob8mm		#92	[-]
(05/16/09 10:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Unless it's the Marley of 1970's SCROOGE musical. Alec Guinness seems almost pleased to install his former partner as the new accountant in hell...ghoulish and gleeful.
Wich2		#93	[-]
(05/16/09 12:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	"I feel a bit squeamish about condemning somebody to eternal suffering and torture-you know, that whole cruel and unusual punishment thing." The argument is - and this is made quite clear by Marley's own "confessions" to Scrooge - that his lot was the choice his own Free Will made: To live apart from God, with Self. Why should such a minor element as the leaving of the flesh change that chosen relationship? God is not "punishing" him, but rather continuing to respect his choice. Last Edited By: Wich2 05/16/09 12:12 PM. Edited 1 times.
Hollywood Gothique		#94	[-]
(05/17/09 2:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	JimPV wrote: Then again Dickens might have meant him to "be in hell", with the idea that hell isn't a literal place but a state of existence. This goes back to a scene in FAUST where the title characters asks Mephistopholes something along the line of "If you're a demon consigned to hell for eternity, how were you able to answer my summon and appear here?" The demon answers: "This is Hell, nor am I out of it!" The implication is that Hell is not a place but a condition of being cut off from the Divine. Marley qualifies.
Monsterpal		#95	[-]
(05/21/09 3:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Pauline Kael?
opticalguy	A Few Random Thoughts	#96	[-]
(06/03/09 12:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	As much as I appreciate the effort to view classic films though a different lens as it were I still have a bit of a problem with this variation. Pauline theology remains Terra Incognita to me. I assume it is a sub-stratum of Christianity but is it too specialized for general audiences here on these boards? I can - and have - used a Jewish religious perspective when discussing some films but I did stick to the generally accepted Jewish beliefs and did not go into Talmudic trivia or even further afield into Kabala (the real deal and not the nonsense promoted by the Kabala center in Los Angeles and embraced by Madonna) when exploring films. That said and with my limited knowledge of Christian philosophy (I record readings for the blind and dyslexic and have read some Christian Philosophy but it seemed like gibberish to me) Dickens's A Christmas Carol does seem a repudiation of the knee-jerk Protestant (not so much in Church of England for some reason) stance that your actions are largely irrelevant but only faith and the grace of God will save you. Neither Scrooge nor Marley (Jacob Marley … is he supposed to be a Jew?) were in conflict with the beliefs of their time. They were however somewhat lacking in deeds. It is implied that Scooge's embrace of humane actions may help redeem Marley. A bit of a stretch perhaps? Also the stressing the wrongness of being "a good man of business" as opposed to "Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!" shows that A Christmas Carol is nothing if not anti-Capitalist. opticalguy1954@yahoo.com (Spencer Gill) Last Edited By: opticalguy 06/08/09 1:54 AM. Edited 1 times.
hermanthegerm		#97	[-]
(06/03/09 2:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	opticalguy wrote: ...it is a sub-stratum of Christianity but is it too specialized for general audiences here on these boards... Thank you. Why choose this arbitrary view and not a million others? Was Pauline theology rampant during the Victorian age? Did Dickens ever indicate that this was a particular theory was important to him? Did any of the film version focus on this aspect? Is it an important aspect of any Christian sect? The answer, my friends is a resounding no. Our good friend Scat has pulled another one.
JennyUndead.thelatarniaforums		#98	[-]
(06/16/09 11:33 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Was Scat trying to be rude whilst pretending to be anal and abstract? that's not nice
Tom Powers		#99	[-]
(06/16/09 3:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Anyway, what I want to know is howcum they never did The Three Scrooges? Can't you see it? Moe as Ebenezer, Emil Sitka as Marley, Shemp as the Ghost of Stooges Past, Larry as the Ghost of Stooges Present, and as the Ghost of Stooges Yet to Come: a hooded stand-in , with various non-verbal soundbites from Curly.

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Scrooge ponderings; Dickens' interpretation of theology stands as quite in contrast to historical Pauline theology

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