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 TomWeaver999 |
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(10/23/08 8:31 AM) Vazec |
<< PJ obviously knows nothing about how dinosaur clades evolved. <<
Yeah, him and 6.7 billion other guys! He also apparently doesn't know that dinosaurs no longer existed by the 20th century. |
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Jeffrey Allen Rydell |
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(10/23/08 10:16 AM) |
Don Glut wrote:Jackson clarified this at time of release (and I'm sure in detail on the subsequent DVD supps): their idea was that Skull Island was a 'closed circuit' of evolution, with lots of anomalies and dead-end development. Basically, they just wanted sh*t they thought looked cool.
- Jeff
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Kingkongkessler |
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(10/23/08 12:55 PM) |
even though I was dissapointed in the film, I can agree with that thought process
"Basically, they just wanted sh*t they thought looked cool."
"Something Monstrous, all-powerful -- still living, still holding that Island in the grip of deadly fear." Carl Denham March 2nd, 1933
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TomWeaver999 |
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(10/23/08 1:07 PM) Vazec |
Well, exactly. Once you've got giant apes and dinosaurs and and and and and in the 20th century, nobody's gonna buy into all of that, and then count a
dinosaur's toes and say, "Okay, NOW I don't believe it!"
tom "You go too far, Jackson! You go too far!" |
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 Rakshasa |
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(10/23/08 1:09 PM) |
TomWeaver999 wrote:Oh man, that's funny. Weaver scores a triple off the left field wall! |
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bobzilla |
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(10/23/08 1:34 PM) |
This from a group that has scrutinized the CRAP out of FMTWM for 149 pages! Fingers and toes. Icicles. There all just observations.
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TomWeaver999 |
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(10/23/08 1:35 PM) Vazec |
Yeah, but they got the number of Wolf Man toes right ... I think.
(Where's that DVD?) |
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BlondieJohnson |
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(10/23/08 8:43 PM) |
TomWeaver999 wrote: ... and gals! |
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blackbiped |
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(10/23/08 11:29 PM) |
bobzilla wrote:The difference is that FMTWM has some very mysterious and intriguing unknown factors. Exploring them isn't the same as simple nitpicking.
Legend, oh legend, the third wheel legend...always in the way.
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Don Glut |
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(10/24/08 12:10 AM) |
My point was that PJ had made a point on the KK DVD about his dinosaurs having evolved to what they looked like in his movie in 1933 ... when in
fact, at least in the "V. rexes" case, they de-evolved, which in nature doesn't happen.
I'm not going to turn this into another pterosaur vs. pterodactyl or Apatosaurus vs. Brontosaurus argument that goes nowhere. But when someone, even an apparent "sacred cow" like PJ, makes a big point about something he clearly doesn't understand, he's fair game for a correction. |
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Rakshasa |
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(10/24/08 6:22 AM) |
Don Glut wrote:I hope I don't sound mean here, but I can't take reading these posts anymore without saying something. You have a serious Peter Jackson fetish, Don. You just can't stop trying to knock him off some imagined ivory tower you've convinced yourself that everyone else has placed him on. The truth is, while you're dreaming up new ways to bash this film and this filmmaker, folks are just enjoying the film for what it is, a fantasy involving giant creatures that look really scary and cool within an often exciting and sometimes touching story. That's it.
Last Edited By: Rakshasa
10/24/08 6:32 AM.
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Arch Stanton |
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(10/24/08 9:47 AM) |
Rakshasa wrote: Well said, Rakshasa. Peter Jackson is obviously one of the good guys in this world, so I don't understand this constant bashing he gets. Must have something to do with the jealousy of success. |
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Don Glut |
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(10/24/08 9:54 AM) |
Looks to me as if the Board members' opinions of PJ's KK are divided, some really liking the movie and others not, many of them falling somewhere in
between. I think of the "nots" it's not really so much disliking the movie as much as going in to see it reallywanting to love it and then being
disappointed. I went to see KK at a big screening at Universal. I was absolutely convinced, going in, that there was no other person in the world more suited
to direct a remake of KK than Peter Jackson. I was really looking forward to it and prepared to love it to the max. And, at least for about the first 45
minutes or so, I really did love what I was seeing. But then, as the movie progressed, I started to notice things I felt were "wrong." And by
the end I was very disappointed and even kind of pissed.
There's nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes in movies. That's what a lot of the discussions on these threads are about and what make them fun. For example, When Dracula shows up in a mirror in a Universal movie, people complain about that and sometimes blame the director for the mistake. I wouldn't have brought up the reverse-evolution thing had not PJ made such a point -- even making that part of a DVD documentary, I seem to recall -- about how he'd evolved all of his dinosaurs as their lines continued on the island. And yes, I believe Jackson has been put on a pedestal, at least by some of the fans I've spoken to personally. Same can be said for a lot of other directors, including Spielberg, the guy who makes those Star Wars films and others. To some fans, these directors can do no wrong and are beyond criticism of any sort. One last thing: I really do respect Jackson and liked very much his older movies, like BAD TASTE. But, frankly, I literally fell asleep during his RINGS movies -- twice during THE TWO TOWERS -- and you already know my opinions of KK. Don
Last Edited By: Don Glut
10/24/08 10:01 AM.
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Jeffrey Allen Rydell |
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(10/24/08 10:02 AM) |
Don Glut wrote:You might have a point about Jackson - coming off LOTR, at least. But Spielberg and Lucas? Been in the doghouse with fans for years. The perception is that Lucas screwed up the prequels, and it hasn't been 'cool' to like Spielberg since E.T. (not that fans don't flock to see each new film, mostly to be able to join in to the watercooler bitchery, it seems).
- Jeff
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Monster Kid |
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(10/24/08 10:44 AM) |
Don, you are right in pointing out the mistake that Jackson made in his film with the big carnosaurs "de-evolving", which in fact does not happen in
nature, and then talking about it in his DVD extra. It's actually not surprising that movies have mistakes like this but I really wish the producers would
at least try to do some homework.
Having the carnosaurs getting some of their digits back after evolution has them lose several digits is like expecting horses, isolated on some large island with forest and some grassland for millions of years, evolving some of their lost toes back to accomodate the forest environment. Horses have lost all but one of their toes on each foot and that's that... horse descendants will never have more than one toe on each foot now. Just like whales will never go to live on dry land again and get back digits lost. |
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Don Glut |
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(10/24/08 1:09 PM) |
Correct.
But let me point out just one more bit of paleo-minutia (and then I'll try my best to get off this thread and topic). But -- for those of you out there who might care, or be interested, even though this has nothing to do with monster movies. (For those of you who don't care, you can either skip the rest of this post ... or post some joke responses.) Tyrannosaurs are no longer classified as carnosaurs. In the old "unenlightened" days, the term "carnosaur" was used to label any large theropod (or carnivorous dinosaur), while "coelurosaur" identified the smaller ones. But thanks to research by paleontologist Tom Holtz approximately a decade ago, where he correctly defined these terms, Tyrannosaurus and his kin (called tyrannosaurids) were found to fall into the "coelurosaur" category. Carnosaurs comprise a large group of more primitive and less birdlike theropods such as Allosaurus. I still find amusing that in Roger Corman's CARNOSAUR movies (I was very slightly involved in the first), there is nary a real "carnosaur" in sight anywhere. As to Spielberg and Lucas being sacred cows, I was mostly remembering what fans were saying to me when their earlier movies were just coming out. Then it seemed as if they could do no wrong. "Dinosaur" Don |
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bobzilla |
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(10/24/08 1:21 PM) |
Don, I may be the only other person on the board that knows the "carnosaur-coelurosaur" thing. I, too, can get involved with dinosaur minutia!
As far as the directors, it's hard to see who is ggod or bad. I just know what I like. I have enjoyed Spielberg since he was involved with Columbo. I remember really enjoying Duel when it was on TV in the early '70s (1971?). Not a big Tom Cruise fan, but also enjoyed his remake of WOW. |
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Don Glut |
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(10/24/08 2:44 PM) |
I happen to be one of those people who enjoy learning new things, especially when they relate to subjects I know little or nothing about. A lot of the members
on this board know such things, many of them quite esoteric; yet it's always a joy to me when somebody shares such knowledge from their particular realm of
non-monster-movie interest with the rest of us. As the old expression goes, "You learn something everyday."
I believe I'm not alone in this attitude. That's why I enjoy sharing bits of paleo-information, much (if not most or all) of it rather esoteric to people not "into" paleontology, in the belief that many of you also like learning new things. Based on the responses I generally get, some of you do; others, when the topic is not of interest personally, respond with either a joke or sarcasm. Personally, I don't care either way. I know lots of paleontologists as wells as other kinds of scientists who'd probably respond with a snide or sarcastic reply to somebody's statement or question regarding who stunt-doubled the Frankenstein Monster or did the animation in some old stop-motion dinosaur movie. |
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Kingkongkessler |
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(10/24/08 3:26 PM) |
Arch Stanton wrote: there are some who don't think PJ is such a good guy, like the people he gets rid off because they dare to have a different opinion than him, PJ's like everyone else in that business, money-money-money, and it effected and ruined his last movie KK, in MHO
"Something Monstrous, all-powerful -- still living, still holding that Island in the grip of deadly fear." Carl Denham March 2nd, 1933
Last Edited By: Kingkongkessler
10/24/08 4:34 PM.
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Arch Stanton |
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(10/24/08 6:27 PM) |
Kingkongkessler wrote: I'm not quite sure how you managed to mangle my last post, but I hope others can figure it out. As for your last comment, I know from experience that people not directly involved don't have the least little clue of what has actually transpired in these sorts of things, so the propagated nonsense on Peter Jackson's "getting rid" of people is the stuff of rumor and nothing more. So you don't like Jackson's KING KONG. Big deal. Don't go slandering the guy over things you know absolutely nothing about. |
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