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 dhtreptow |
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(05/13/08 8:06 PM) |
Stashu Pandowski wrote: Ya, I don't no what's gonna be worse, Joe railing against the machine, or Joe as part of the machine. |
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Joe Karlosi |
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(05/13/08 9:20 PM) |
Thanks for the good words and all the advice, everyone. Brent -- it's good to be able to communicate at last! Thanks for your vital information. I had to tell you guys about the craziness I went through tonight. The first step I had to accomplish was to try and move that monster 36" Sony and its large stand down the hall and through a door, into the bedroom. My wife and I went out first to buy these plastic things that you try and shove under all four corners, which helps you slide heavy objects across carpeting. It took us a while to be able to lift all four corners of the whole shebang enough to kick these plastics underneath. Then when I finally got it ready to go, I still couldn't move anything. My wife's back is bad right now, so she couldn't help me. I tried pulling --- to no avail. I tried pushing --- no luck either. Finally, I was able to move the damn thing out a few feet, and then it stalled in the middle of the living room -- and would no longer budge! It looked like I was going to be stuck with this beast in the middle of the room for the indefinite future! The problem was that the stand itself was rather flimsy and I didn't have anywhere to securely grab it. I soon discovered that if I grabbed at the middle of the stand, the thing could snap and the whole TV could come crashing down! So after a long time of thinking how to approach this, I tried calling some movers -- but I couldn't get anyone who could come over until a couple of days at the earliest -- and I had a dilemma facing me because the set was now just stuck in the center of the room. Then my wife came up with a good suggestion.. she told me to get on my back on the floor and push with my legs, and that's what worked. Just a foot or so at a time, and the monster glided a bit at a time. I had to focus on the lowest part, the baseboard, which was the most sturdy. It was a hilarious and ridiculous sight -- we should have gotten our camera out! I must have worn the seat of my pants out by the time I managed to use my legs and feet to move this sucker down the hall, through a door, and in various angles to make it fit in the bedroom. What a workout! So now the old TV is set up in the bedroom. I'll be home tomorrow so I plan on finding a stand to build and then I'll be able to fix up the HDTV in the living room. SAM -- nope, I can't really sit back and further than 10 feet, unless I go through a wall! For what it's worth, I didn't get the HDTV at Best Buy.
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"It's MORE ... than a hobby!"
Last Edited By: Joe Karlosi
05/13/08 9:48 PM.
Edited 4 times.
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Brent Gair |
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(05/13/08 10:52 PM) |
Keeping with the "anamorphic" theme, this becomes important for anybody with an HDTV but not an hd (Blu-ray) player.
I tried to find a simple on-line explanation and they are all more complicated than they are worth. So I'll try to do a short version and leave out the technical stuff. A lot of people watching DVD on 4x3 TV sets pay no attention to this subject because it has no immediate importance to them. A 4x3 TV is the great equalizer since it makes both ananmorphic widescreen and non-anamorphic letterbox widescreen look about the same. But once you get an HDTV, you can actually access the increased definition of an anamorphic transfer. It's almost like a middle step between SD and HD. Here are some very condensed facts minus the mumbo jumbo: 1)We're talking about transfers of widescreen movies. For various reasons (that I won't waste your time with) it doesn't really apply to Academy Ratio stuff. 2)Anamorphic transfers go by different names when used by different companies. Look on the disc case. Some will say "ANAMORPHIC". Others (like Warner Brothers) will say "ENHANCED FOR WIDESCREEN TV'S". Yet others will say "16X9 WIDESCREEN". With rare exceptions (there are always a few) that's what you want for maximum resolution when you watch a widescreen movie. 3)Be suspicious of the word "LETTERBOXED". If a disc is labeled as "Letterboxed" with no mention of the previous terms, it is likely not anamorphic. It will be a widescreen movie inside a 4x3 transfer...much lower resolution. 4)As mentioned earlier, this benefit ONLY comes about if your DVD player is set to know that you have a 16x9 TV. Don't worry, pretty much every player ever made has a 16x9 option. If you do not make the change, your player will keep outputting a 4x3 picture. It will transmit the higher resolution anamorphic transfers in a 4x3 window just as if they were lower quality letterboxed transfers. The player must know you have a 16x9 set in order to "unlock" the enhancement. |
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Hamicus Helen |
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(05/14/08 12:19 AM) |
Oh no Joe, we'll miss you
"You think that when you die you go to heaven. You come to us!" |
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dhtreptow |
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(05/14/08 12:56 AM) |
Another way to think of it, is that letterboxing is just 2/3 of a square box with 1/3 of it's area wasted on black bars, and widescreen enhanced changes
the shape of the box to a rectangle, and fills the whole thing wasting nothing.
When you see a letterboxed image on a 4x3 TV the bars are a part of the image, when you see a widescreen enhanced DVD the bars are something added by your player. |
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Joe Karlosi |
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(05/14/08 8:43 AM) |
I'm still in the early stages of playing around with different DVDs and settings, but I can see that everything seems very inconsistent when doing this.
Truthfully, I'm not exactly blown away by the quality. Of course, I understand I don't even have an upconverting player, much less an HD one.
Brent - I've been trying to access my 16x9 setting for my DVD player on the remote, but I can't find any means to check this. I recall a few years ago though that I had some sort of problem when watching the DVD for HORRORS OF THE BLACK MUSEUM, when the picture looked wrong, and I had to go in and make sure the player was 16x9, so I could get the proper AR. However, I think that may have been an older DVD player. The one I'm currently using is from around 2005. On my new set, every time I watch even an anamorphic 2.35:1 film it seems to look properly OAR at "Zoom 1". When I put the picture mode to 16x9, the image is really wide and stretched, and not right. Can anyone explain this? Also, I find myself constantly playing with blackness levels, contrast, backlight, etc, etc, etc... and it seems to vary from disc to disc/movie to movie, and sometimes even from scene to scene. This wasn't really a concern with the old CRT. I've always been a proponent of "watching the film", but if you have to keep fussing about, you're not really enjoying the experience! That digital artifacting really becomes obvious as well.
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"It's MORE ... than a hobby!" |
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Brent Gair |
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(05/14/08 10:01 AM) |
Joe Karlosi wrote:Ok Joe. What you are describing is what we DON'T want. Your description of the picture using "Zoom 1" and "16x9" sound like a classic example of a DVD player set to 4x3 output delivering a picture to a 16x9 HDTV. In essence the DVD player is delivering your picture all packaged up nicely in 4x3 box. When a widescreen movie is sent that way...such as NON-anamorphic widescreen, "Zoom 1" * is the setting on your TV that will normally be used to fill the screen to the proper proportions. That's why it looks proper but you are not getting full resolution. You are just getting the proper aspect ratio. If that exact same picture is then viewed using your TV set's 16x9 mode, it simply stretches the picture horizontally. That gives an exaggerated wide pciture with huge black bars and fat little people! If EVERYTHING is set properly, an anamorphic DVD should play properly in the 16x9 mode. I'll repeat that because that is really the true test of a proper set up. With your DVD player set properly, and using an anamorphic widescreen DVD, the picture should properly display when using the 16x9 mode. If you have to use a zoom mode, either the player is not set to 16x9 or...as on rare occassion can happen...the DVD could be incorrectly labelled (some smaller companies especially can do that). If you test with something like WB's OMEGA MAN though, you'll be safe. This brings us back to the DVD player. I'd bet my BD player it's the DVD player output. Going back to my earlier post, I've never seen a DVD player that didn't provide for 16x9 output. Even 8 years ago, my first one had it. And a half dozen since then have all had it. So it's there! you just have to find it. Most likely, you will need to look in the SETUP menu on your DVD player. 16x9 is NOT, repeat NOT USUALLY ACCESSED DIRECTLY FROM THE DVD PLAYER REMOTE. It will be found in your "SETUP" menu. Don't worry about making the change. IT ONLY HAS TO BE DONE ONCE and will not adversely affect any 4x3 or non-anamorphic material! You don't have to change the DVD settings for different discs. You are just letting the player know that it should send a 16x9 picture when it detects an anamorphic disc. Once that is done...and I know that somewhere in your player you can make that change...you will only need to make aspect ratio adjustments with your TV remote. For example, when watching an anamorphic widescreen disc, use the 16x9 mode. For 4x3 and non-anamorphic material use the normal or 4x3 mode. You can use the zoom for non-anamorphic movies. So try to make that ONE TIME change using the DVD player SETUP menu (it HAS to be there somewhere). And only then use your TV remote to adjust the aspect ratio for various discs. Remember the golden rule: Anamorphic discs look normal in the 16x9 mode! *Different companies have different designations for there various picture modes so there can occassionaly be confusion. What might be "16x9" on one brand might be "Cinema Wide" on another. "4x3" on one brand may be "Normal" on another so there can sometimes be confusion.
Last Edited By: Brent Gair
05/14/08 10:05 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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dhtreptow |
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(05/14/08 10:17 AM) |
I agree Joe, you probably just need to set your player at 16x9, because it sounds like it's at 4x3. it's usually under the "image set-up"
options in your player's menu, and most players require you not be playing a disk to access it.
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zogstar67 |
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(05/14/08 11:37 AM) |
Just to clarify, the above advice on setting to 16x9 is only for widescreen TVs, correct? Or no?
"Synthetic Flesh!"
Chris Herzog zogstar67@yahoo.com |
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Brent Gair |
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(05/14/08 1:20 PM) |
Yes...for widescreen TV sets only...IN MOST CASES. If you set your DVD player for a 16x9 screen but you have regular 4x3 screen, the image from an anamorphic
disc will be distorted.
There is an exception. Some recent 4x3 TV sets do have a 16x9 mode that will correctly display an anamorphic DVD. In fact, I had one of those TV sets. But in the vast majority of cases, if you have a 4x3 TV, keep your DVD player set for 4x3. At one time (when I had an older 4x3 Tv), I would purposely set my DVD player to 16x9 in order to see if a disc was anamorphic. If I set the player to 16x9, an anamorphic disc display with a pronounced squeeze. That way I could make sure the disc was labelled correctly. Artisan was terrible for mislabelling about half of all their DVDs so you couldn't trust the box. Once I did that check, I'd set the player back to 4x3. |
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Professor X |
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(05/14/08 3:03 PM) |
Joe Karlosi wrote:If you have a recent DVD with the THX logo (e.g., any one of the 2006 releases of the PLANET OF THE APES movies), open the THX *easter egg* and use the optimizer to properly set black level, contrast, and color. I spent weeks trying to manually calibrate my LCD. Then I used the THX optimizer, and found that my best settings were identical to the optimizer settings. |
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sirharryflashman |
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(05/14/08 4:02 PM) |
Congrats Joe!
I recall being awfully disappointed by what regular broadcast television looked like when I first bought my 56 inch Samsung HD DLP a few years back. What truly blew my mind was the first time I watched an HD Discovery Channel broadcast. It was just some underwater deep sea fish related program, which I wouldn't normally watch in a million years, but I was absolutely mesmerized by the image quality and couldn't tear my eyes away from it. My wife, on the other hand, was floored by an HD broadcast of a basketball game. Hell, I still get thrown by the beauty of stuff like CSI Miami when I'm flipping channels and land on the HD broadcast. Can't stand the show, but those gorgeous flyby shots of beach fronts at sunset and the like are simply stunning. You're going to love your set once you get comfortable with all the settings and controls. Just a matter of time and a bit of experimentation and you'll be hooked like the rest of us. Congratulations again! |
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Joe Karlosi |
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(05/14/08 5:19 PM) |
Thanks again for the input, everyone. It helps a lot!
I bought a stand today, hooked everything up, and now I've got what looks like a real theater in my living room. I read your advice, Brent, and now the only trick is to (gulp) find my Sony manual!! I've never been great at saving those things, but during my search I did manage to find the manual to my dual Sony VHS/DVD Player (which is not the one I am using for DVD viewing, however). My wife's watching the HDTV now (broadcast cooking shows -- go figure!) but later tonight I'm going to see if I can access the player's menu system as the booklet advises for the other machine; they're both Sony players, so who knows. Worse case scenario, I can call the company for some tips. I want to clarify that when the HDTV plays an anamorphic 2.35 movie at 4x3 mode, what I get is the full black screen (so to speak) with the image being a small rectangle in the center. That's the same thing you'd get on a standard 4x3 set. I don't know if that changes anything or not. Just to repeat, though I think it's been properly understood -- I have to hit ZOOM 1 to get the correct 2.35 look, with some horizontal bars... and ZOOM 2 to fill the TV, but you lose some quality. The 16x9 option looks more "letterboxed", with a wider stretch and even more "black bars". I went to two stores today and can't find any Bluray copies of THE OMEGA MAN. I have a sneaking suspicion that somewhere down the line this could be an out of print disc, so I'm going to order from Amazon tonight so I'll have it when I do buy the BD player, eventually. It's the perfect HD disc for me to have as my first movie in the format. I've been practicing with my current SD of OMEGA MAN, and during the opening scenes where Heston's driving down the street, the buildings shimmer and you get the road "waving", and all that stuff I guess we'd call artifacting...? Not really acceptable.
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"It's MORE ... than a hobby!"
Last Edited By: Joe Karlosi
05/14/08 5:23 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Brent Gair |
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(05/14/08 5:56 PM) |
Joe Karlosi wrote: No doubt about it. That picture is very, VERY wrong. That's a TEXTBOOK description of what happens when your DVD player is set for a 4x3 TV. Get that DVD player set for 16x9 and you should be in business. Check your remote...it may have a button that says "Setup" (one of mine says that). Or check out the various "menu" buttons. Some menu buttons are obviously for the DVD playback but you might find that one of the menu buttons is the setup menu. Won't hurt to press a few buttons. You should NEVER have to use a zoom mode to view an anamorphic disc. You will need the 16x9 mode. In the 16x9 mode, any anamorphic disc should appear absolutely normal with no distortion. If it's 2.35:1 (or any of the Scope ratios) you'll get narrow black bars at the top and bottom ONLY. A 1.85 anamorphic movie will fill the screen (there could be inperceptibly tiny black bars but overscan usually hides them. There should never be black bars on the side of 2.35 or 1.85 anamorphic movie. If you have to hit zoom to get rid of bars at the side, something is wrong. Just don't sweat it too much. It seems complicated NOW but, once you get it figured out...it's really nothing. Just keep hitting button until you get into your DVD player setup menu. Make the change just once and you'll be fine. And recognizing anamorphic discs will be second nature. This is a bit of teething trouble but when the nuisance is past, things will be fine. I've had my big 16x9 for 5 years (I wrote the deilvery date on the back of the TV: May 12, 2003). Spent a couple of days getting it figured out...and it has been 100% perfect since then. |
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Joe Karlosi |
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(05/14/08 5:59 PM) |
Brent, thanks so much. You know, I think this is going to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship!
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"It's MORE ... than a hobby!" |
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Brent Gair |
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(05/14/08 6:19 PM) |
Joe, I dug out this example that I posted on another forum a couple of years ago.
From your description, you're getting something like the BOTTOM photo. Correct? That's what a 4x3 non-anamorphic transfer looks like or an anamorphic disc in a DVD player set to 4x3. What you want is in the top photo. an anamorphic widescreen disc, being output at 16x9 and viewed in the 16x9 mode. If you ZOOMED the bottom image, you could make it LOOK LIKE the top image but you wouldn't be seeing the full resolution. 
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Joe Karlosi |
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(05/14/08 7:25 PM) |
Correct, Brent. But now it's no longer a concern, as I've figured it all out! I managed to get to the main setup on the player and I switched it to
16:9. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!
Now I don't even see the "shimmering artifacts" in the scenes of THE OMEGA MAN as I did earlier. I've been trying all sorts of DVDs, different AR's. They all look pretty damn good - even in SD! As a matter of fact, while checking out films like HELP! and KILL BILL VOL. 2, the SD's already looked so good that I wondered if I'd even NEED an upconverting player, or Bluray! I'm still going to get a BD player down the line though, and the best thing is knowing that - as good as the SD's seem to now look since I've made the 16:9 switchover with my player, the HD's would be even sweeter. This is very, very cool.
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"It's MORE ... than a hobby!" |
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ARGumshoe |
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(05/14/08 7:55 PM) |
So, who is this pro-Hi Def guy who's taken over Joe's Yuku account????
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Brent Gair |
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(05/14/08 8:47 PM) |
Start checking through some of those old DVDs and you might be surprised what you find in anamorphic widescreen.
The VERY FIRST DVD that I watched when I got my new TV set 5 years ago was BEGINNING OF THE END from 1957. Released by Image in glorious anamorphic widescreen black and white. And I just finished watching THE LAND UNKNOWN from that just (re)released Universal sci-fi package. B&W Cinemascope with an anamorphic transfer and it's stunning. I was shocked at how good it looked. Most of the Harryhausen flicks are anamorphic though they suffer a bit from the heavy grain from the optical effects. TARGET EARTH, CONQUEST OF SPACE, FORBIDDEN PLANET, THE FLY...just way too many to list. Anamorphic widescreen isn't just for new stuff. |
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JimPV |
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(05/14/08 8:52 PM) |
Professor X wrote: Yes, you definitely want to calibrate your set! Though, I've found the THX optimizer to be off (might have been an early DVD). Beg, borrow or
steal an Avia or Video Essentials calibration disc. I'd suggest the Avia - it's got more stuff on it than you'll ever need, but it'll be nice
to know it's there if you need it, right?
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